Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-03-2012, 08:51 AM
#WEDAT
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I am willing to bet we won't defend our turf as vigorously as if it were some other interloping airline.
11-03-2012, 10:03 AM
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Denny,
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
I'm kinda surprised you're not busy!!
Thanks for looking that up Johnso.
Denny
11-03-2012, 10:42 AM
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Inglorious...
Those Nazi Mods banned Jessie!
FREE JESSIE!
Oh, and here's more Zen wisdom for you...
Caddyshack Wisdom - YouTube
FREE JESSIE!
Oh, and here's more Zen wisdom for you...
Caddyshack Wisdom - YouTube
11-03-2012, 10:55 AM
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I'll go with Denny Dingle Dangle Crane on this one.
1.B.6. “Alaska hub” means SEA, ANC, LAX and any other airport having a monthly average of 37 at least 100 Alaska scheduled flight departures per day.
1.B.23. “Delta hub” means ATL, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, SLC, LGA, MEM, MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, and any other airport having a monthly average of at least 100 Delta scheduled flight departures per day.
1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
1.B.6. “Alaska hub” means SEA, ANC, LAX and any other airport having a monthly average of 37 at least 100 Alaska scheduled flight departures per day.
1.B.23. “Delta hub” means ATL, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, SLC, LGA, MEM, MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, and any other airport having a monthly average of at least 100 Delta scheduled flight departures per day.
Exception: SEA is not a Delta hub, regardless of the number of scheduled flight departures.
1.O.2. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments between Delta hubs whether or not a Delta hub is also an Alaska hub. 1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Exception one: The DL code may be placed on AS flight segments to or from LAX, subject to Section 1 O. 2. Any such flight segments between LAX and an Alaska hub will be included in the calculations in Section 1 O.3.
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
a. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of DL bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of AS bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0, and
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
11-03-2012, 10:56 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Denny,
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
ALFA had it all summed up pretty good but some details were off...
— SLC SEA can't have the DL code placed on the AS flight because it is TO/FROM a DL hub...
— Hub to Hub flights where DL places our code on AS are limited to 20% or less.
What ALFA had wrong is that the 4-1 ratio is not per market but for all hub-to-hub flying. (thats why LAX SEA flight count towards the ratio as DL has no LAX SEA flights)
Instead all Hub-to-Hub DL flights and all hub-to-hub AS flight bearing the DL code are put in a pot and measured. AS can't exceed 20% of that flying.
With few exceptions the number of DL codeshare pax on an AS flight is limited to 35% on the AS flight on a monthly aggragate basis.
All of these protections are pretty good.
Further as ALFA pointed out DL needs "skin in the game."
Delta won't sell an AS flight by itself because there is no revenue generated (ALFA's 0miles = $0 comment)
Here's where it gets interesting because all it takes is a DL code flight, not Delta metal that will fulfill this requirement. As long as a DL code flight operated by DCI or a JV partner connects with an AS flight bearing the DL code, Delta makes money without needing Delta metal or Delta pilots.
Thats why the AS code is so tricky in LAX because AS feeds our JV codeshare partners AirFrance, KLM, Alitalia and Virgin Australia. No need for Delta pilots for Delta to make money because to Delta the metal-neutral JV partner offers the same return as if Delta had a Delta jet with Delta pilots on the route.
Go ahead and try SEA SYD and you'll see all it takes is one DCI segment and Delta will sell an itinerary with AS feeding DCI feeding VA...
Same thing for the SEA ATL leg, connect it up with a DCI destination and Delta will sell that ticket with the "Delta" RJ feeding the AS flight.
Codeshares aren't bad nor are JVs nor is DCI. As long as each one of them touches a plane operated by Delta pilots we gain jobs vs losing them. It's only when the non-Delta flight connects of feeds the non-Delta flight that we need to be concerned.
Some say as long as Delta makes money those type of arrangements shouldn't worry us, because whats good for Delta is good for Delta pilots. In reality, the devil is in the details and how one part of Section 1 interacts with another might need some firming up to prevent the Delta brand expanding without a corresponding increase in jobs and career opportunities for Delta pilots.
Cheers
George
11-03-2012, 11:02 AM
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In a hurry, but the short answer is that the Exception Two is what allows us to code share on SEA-SLC/MSP/ATL etc. that is where the 4 to 1 language is. So DL code could NOT be on an Alaska segment from ATL-SAV (Delta Hub) but can be on SEA-ATL under Exception Two (AS Hub to Hub).
Cheers
George
11-03-2012, 11:13 AM
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11-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Straight QOL, homie
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Can we all agree that we are competing directly with Alaska on the SLC-SEA route?
11-03-2012, 01:26 PM
Line Holder
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New category/base seatlock
When the 717/DTW 73N/etc is offered in an AE, seat locks don't apply, right?
11-03-2012, 01:29 PM
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Do the added "Delta Pilot Block Hours" increase or decrease with the two recent announcements?
I see two round trips SEA-SLC, block is roughly 2:00 each way, for a total of 8:00 of block times 2 pilots:
16:00 of "pilot block hours" for ALK.
The new SEA-PVG is 12:25 return is 11:30.. The rotation will require 4 pilots so that means "24:00" times 4 pilots:
96:00 "pilot block hours"
I'm all for ALK adjusting their entire schedule to accommodate the DAL international schedule... It means a "net increase" of 80:00 PER DAY more flying for delta pilots.
Translated to a year round it is 30 more pilots DAL needs and 6 more that ALK will need.
Is a 5.x growth ratio versus ALK worth it?
Also the SLC-SEA probably won't be part of the code share anyway..
I did not include the HND flight since that is being removed from DTW.(although DTW is getting other additional Asia flying in place of HND.)
I see two round trips SEA-SLC, block is roughly 2:00 each way, for a total of 8:00 of block times 2 pilots:
16:00 of "pilot block hours" for ALK.
The new SEA-PVG is 12:25 return is 11:30.. The rotation will require 4 pilots so that means "24:00" times 4 pilots:
96:00 "pilot block hours"
I'm all for ALK adjusting their entire schedule to accommodate the DAL international schedule... It means a "net increase" of 80:00 PER DAY more flying for delta pilots.
Translated to a year round it is 30 more pilots DAL needs and 6 more that ALK will need.
Is a 5.x growth ratio versus ALK worth it?
Also the SLC-SEA probably won't be part of the code share anyway..
I did not include the HND flight since that is being removed from DTW.(although DTW is getting other additional Asia flying in place of HND.)
Last edited by shiznit; 11-03-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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