Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-02-2012, 11:57 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
You are correct, Denny. alfa via long words explains the big picture, but as usual misses the critical nuances.
11-03-2012, 03:18 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I read that and here is where I run into a problem with it. Alfa says: "A 4 to 1 hub to hub ratio, meaning for every 1 flight that Alaska has Delta code on between Seattle and a Delta hub, Delta has to have 4 flights with Alaska code on in the same market."
The statement is incorrect as far as SEA to SLC flights are concerned. These flights are NOT hub to hub. Seattle is not a Delta hub whereas Salt Lake City is a Delta hub. This is clearly stated in the contract. When I looked up our scope clause, section 1. O. 3. it says: The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub. There are exceptions listed after this but, as far as I can tell, they are for hub to hub flights not a non hub (Seattle) to a hub (SLC).
Of course I'm not a lawyer so it probably does say it some where I just cannot figure out where......
I must be reading the exceptions wrong, I just cannot figure out how. They all talk about hub to hub flights.....
Denny
The statement is incorrect as far as SEA to SLC flights are concerned. These flights are NOT hub to hub. Seattle is not a Delta hub whereas Salt Lake City is a Delta hub. This is clearly stated in the contract. When I looked up our scope clause, section 1. O. 3. it says: The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub. There are exceptions listed after this but, as far as I can tell, they are for hub to hub flights not a non hub (Seattle) to a hub (SLC).
Of course I'm not a lawyer so it probably does say it some where I just cannot figure out where......
I must be reading the exceptions wrong, I just cannot figure out how. They all talk about hub to hub flights.....
Denny
1.B.6. “Alaska hub” means SEA, ANC, LAX and any other airport having a monthly average of 37 at least 100 Alaska scheduled flight departures per day.
1.B.23. “Delta hub” means ATL, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, SLC, LGA, MEM, MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, and any other airport having a monthly average of at least 100 Delta scheduled flight departures per day.
Exception: SEA is not a Delta hub, regardless of the number of scheduled flight departures.
1.O.2. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments between Delta hubs whether or not a Delta hub is also an Alaska hub. 1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Exception one: The DL code may be placed on AS flight segments to or from LAX, subject to Section 1 O. 2. Any such flight segments between LAX and an Alaska hub will be included in the calculations in Section 1 O.3.
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
a. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of DL bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of AS bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0, and
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
11-03-2012, 03:42 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
You are only using the other guy's juniority to 'voluntarily' displace for him, so he doesn't have to be mandatorily displaced. Once you are 'in place' in your new category, you'll use your number for bidding and everything else. This allows senior guys to move, if they want to, and saves some junior guys from being flushed, or MD'd.
But the computer has to use someone's number to do the math on how many will be displaced, and where they can displace to, so that's why you are using the junior guy's number to go where he could hold a seat, but yours once you are in that category.
Clear as mud?
11-03-2012, 03:47 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
11-03-2012, 05:49 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
11-03-2012, 05:54 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
That's correct Denny, and thanks for adding that. Once you're in the category you use your own seniority power, but you have to use someone elses seniority to get to that category.
11-03-2012, 06:08 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I read that and here is where I run into a problem with it. Alfa says: "A 4 to 1 hub to hub ratio, meaning for every 1 flight that Alaska has Delta code on between Seattle and a Delta hub, Delta has to have 4 flights with Alaska code on in the same market."
The statement is incorrect as far as SEA to SLC flights are concerned. These flights are NOT hub to hub. Seattle is not a Delta hub whereas Salt Lake City is a Delta hub. This is clearly stated in the contract. When I looked up our scope clause, section 1. O. 3. it says: The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub. There are exceptions listed after this but, as far as I can tell, they are for hub to hub flights not a non hub (Seattle) to a hub (SLC).
Of course I'm not a lawyer so it probably does say it some where I just cannot figure out where......
I must be reading the exceptions wrong, I just cannot figure out how. They all talk about hub to hub flights.....
Denny
The statement is incorrect as far as SEA to SLC flights are concerned. These flights are NOT hub to hub. Seattle is not a Delta hub whereas Salt Lake City is a Delta hub. This is clearly stated in the contract. When I looked up our scope clause, section 1. O. 3. it says: The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub. There are exceptions listed after this but, as far as I can tell, they are for hub to hub flights not a non hub (Seattle) to a hub (SLC).
Of course I'm not a lawyer so it probably does say it some where I just cannot figure out where......
I must be reading the exceptions wrong, I just cannot figure out how. They all talk about hub to hub flights.....
Denny
1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Here's the way I'm interpreting it. It doesn't state to AND from Delta hubs, or in between Delta hubs. It states to OR from Delta hubs. So if the the AS flight is SEA TO SLC, they can't put the DL code on it. If the AS flight is to SEA FROM SLC, they can't put the DL code on it.
Am I off on this one?
11-03-2012, 06:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: MD musical chairs
Posts: 239
Is there a spot in the ATL crew room where they store extra FCBs, FOBs, and Mid Cylce revisions? Thanks, not ATL based.
11-03-2012, 06:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,524
11-03-2012, 06:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
Well if you VD you will incur a 2 yr freeze, and you will only hold what the seniority of the person you are saving from a MD will hold. Of course considering the seniority number of the most junior NYC 7ERB, that's probably not an issue.
I think if you want to protect yourself you AE NYC 320B @ a percentage(ex-NYC 320B 75%), then AE NYC 7ERB. Then VD NYC 7ERB. As always, you could contact DALPA for the best advice.
I think if you want to protect yourself you AE NYC 320B @ a percentage(ex-NYC 320B 75%), then AE NYC 7ERB. Then VD NYC 7ERB. As always, you could contact DALPA for the best advice.
As an aside to the other VD discussion, you get to use your own seniority if you VD to your current aircraft at a different base.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
