groundstop

Your talking about the raises but you haven't mentioned giving up work rules. Guess you wanted to "completely ignore the real world"

TANSTAAFL

OK, without quoting your whole post, I agree in principle with everything you said, however are confused by the above statement.

The owners (shareholders, institutional investors) by proxy and occasionally direct vote put their trust in the BOD, and the BOD in the CEO and elected company officers who negotiate with our counterparts across the table. The owners do not have a MEMRAT on our TA once management reaches a TA with us.

I'm sure management is much more in tune with keeping the owners happy than we are, as their legal fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders, as ALPA's is to the pilots. I would venture when we hit the "wall" reference negotiations we are coming up against that owner backstop of acceptability.

Obviously we don't operate in a vacuum, however provided we are doing our part to push as hard as possible (and reasonable) for the pilot interests, I have full confidence that management will represent the shareholders. I find the continuous analogies of proactive engagement or end up like APA/AMR as specious. There is a continuum of responses from one end of the spectrum to the other - comparisons of polar opposites to validate your strategy are suspect as they leave no room for shades of grey or that we could have done more.

What bothers me in your response, again very valid, is we seem too concerned with protecting shareholder value - which is after all managements job - and leaves me wondering if we pushed hard enough, i.e., hit the "wall" for ours.

It's water under the bridge now, but we will be negotiating again over FTDT, before 2015 amendable date, and sooner if there is a transaction type JCBA - I want to be sure we are pushing as hard as possible/practical and not empathizing too much with shareholder/management issues, which they represent themselves quite well with, and with considerably more assets than we have, all the while being cogent of the points you mention.

(Short version: help goose lay more eggs, make sure we get our share of extra eggs, let farmer worry about how many eggs he has to sell at market )

Mesabah

Correct, but it's only part of the story, undercutting GoJetzzs plays a big part here as well, as Delta came to PNCL and said if they can't offer costs like GJs, GTFO.

RJtrashPilot

Welcome to the elite club of pilot groups having gone through the 1113 process! So to be a real airline pilot, you have to have been furloughed, divorced, company gone bankrupt and now we can add 1113'd.

I abhor the smiley things, but in the spirit of preserving the peace since this was a light-hearted comment:

...and BFF...really??

XtremeF150

I would imagine if DAL buys them it will be a situation like Compass and Mesaba (PNCL) work under. We own The Compass jets and more or less rent them to Transtates for them to be flown for us (At lower salaries of course).
I'm not sure how many a/c we still own or if those a/c are taken into account in these positive a/c numbers later this decade.

As I've said quite a few times though, Large RJ's flown at DCI give me heartburn. Hope we don't offer them anymore ....FOR ANY AMOUNT OF PAY RAISE (Hope our union can read large type)

sailingfun

The work rules at Delta have substantially improved overall since the bankruptcy. We also were able to maintain most of the critical rigs during chapter 11 unlike other airlines.

badflaps

It seems to me DALPA should be trying to get the E-jets under the umbrella, since Embraer will probably build more bigger better.

Scoop

That Cat is on the "juice."

Scoop

johnso29

Well the E190/195 has been out for years. That being said, I'd love to see the E170/175 @ mainline. Air Canada has been flying them for years at mainline. Unfortunately, they just fell victim to having a large portion of their domestic flying(apparently all E175's and even some Airbus aircraft) shifted to a low cost subsidiary of Air Canada. Separate pilot group with much lower pay.

EDIT: Turns out it's worse then I thought!

Even though the airline, which is targeting rivals like Sunwing and Transat, has studied different possibilities including a partnership, the new low-cost carrier will be 100 per cent owned by Air Canada with a separate management team.

That’s because an arbitration decision issued in July to settle a contract with the airline’s 3,000 pilots permits up to 50 airplanes — 20 Boeing 767s and 30 Airbus 319s to be used for the discount airline.


Air Canada to launch low-cost carrier in 2013 - thestar.com

Check Essential

That's only true if you're one of the guys who wants to fly 95 hours/month.
The new rules are great for those guys.

However, if you would prefer a meaningful monthly cap in order to create more jobs and advancement and spend more time with your family then we have gone backwards in a big way.
Ask yourself how many current F/Os would be captains right now and how many new hire f/o's we would have on this property if everyone was flying 75 hours with bow wave and spillback rules like the old days?