Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-25-2012, 03:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
09-25-2012, 04:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
Like I posted before Compass is still full steam ahead with hiring I guess, why would they do that if the flow wont happen until a year from now? "ya guys you got the job but you wont be in class until October...2013" The HR rep said they did not want to hire too many too soon because they lose interest after awhile. Some of the people have already been in the pool since April, a year from now will be a long time and doubtful they would accept a class. I still believe something is up...but just my optimistic observation.
09-25-2012, 04:29 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Buzz is going to kill me, but I missed the game last night and just watched the hail marry on replay.
I have to say, Tate should've been called for pass interference but wasn't. I'm not sure if anyone was in position to see it so who knows.
But I think it was a TD. I think it was a tie catch until after they were on the ground.
If it had been called the other way, it'd still be a controversy, just in SEA.
I have to say, Tate should've been called for pass interference but wasn't. I'm not sure if anyone was in position to see it so who knows.
But I think it was a TD. I think it was a tie catch until after they were on the ground.
If it had been called the other way, it'd still be a controversy, just in SEA.
09-25-2012, 05:28 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Quick question for the all knowing thread: I bid reserve this month (like an idiot), & remember seeing some discussion on here about guys timing out.
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
09-25-2012, 06:04 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Like I posted before Compass is still full steam ahead with hiring I guess, why would they do that if the flow wont happen until a year from now? "ya guys you got the job but you wont be in class until October...2013" The HR rep said they did not want to hire too many too soon because they lose interest after awhile. Some of the people have already been in the pool since April, a year from now will be a long time and doubtful they would accept a class. I still believe something is up...but just my optimistic observation.
I will not argue that. Consolidation is a very real possibility. That can come in many forms, not just buying an airline. It can also be assets or part of an airline. There are many "one offs" as possibilities.
09-25-2012, 06:06 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
09-25-2012, 06:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
So the best I have gotten is that the work rules saved the company 300 jobs and that we had an early out for 191 pilots. I will just ignore the other gains we made that increase the need for pilots and use your numbers. Unless math has changed lately that nets out to about 110 pilots. So the best you can come up with is that if capacity didn't shrink next year, they would hire 110 pilots this spring and 110 pilots would be in a higher paying category next year. In actuality no one can show that they would really need to hire next spring given where the economy has gone, but I will spot you that one too.
So on average a move up the ladder to the next higher paying position is about a $10 an hour raise under the old pay rates. That equates to about $10,000 a year income and for 110 pilots that would be $1.1 million. Now the pilot group got $80 million per year in raises in July and then another $170 million per year in January. So in 2013 we are getting $250 million per year in increased pay and 110 pilots lost a chance to make, combined, $1.1 million.
Am I the only who doesn't think that is a good tradeoff? On average, these pay increases for 2013 will mean an average increase of $20,000 or more in salary for each Delta pilots. So the trade is $20,000 per year for 11,000+ pilots versus $10,000 per year for 110 pilots. Please, someone tell me:
1. How anyone in the world could call this cost neutral for pilots and not be unable to do basic math?
2. How this would be better for the pilot group?
3. How this would be better for even the 110 pilots that would move up a position?
So imagine you are say oh an elected leader of Council 20. Would you make that tradeoff, $1.1 million for $250 million? Not to mention that there are millions more coming in 2014 and 2015. Not to mention higher reserve guarantee more vacation and many other items. Is that a trade you would make or are you too committed to this contra agenda that you would take the path that makes you the hero of the forum crowd but could screw the pilots out of more than a billion dollars of contractual gains. Plus the opportunity to accelerate the movement of flying back to mainline. Perhaps an elected leader will face these decisions and they will have to decide whether they want some small vocal group to pat them on the back for a few days or whether they want to put money in pilots' pockets.
We would all like a situation where we just write down our demands and they are delivered to us on a silver platter. Perhaps that will come with a pretty pink pony that flies. Until that happens you will face real decisions in a real world.
So on average a move up the ladder to the next higher paying position is about a $10 an hour raise under the old pay rates. That equates to about $10,000 a year income and for 110 pilots that would be $1.1 million. Now the pilot group got $80 million per year in raises in July and then another $170 million per year in January. So in 2013 we are getting $250 million per year in increased pay and 110 pilots lost a chance to make, combined, $1.1 million.
Am I the only who doesn't think that is a good tradeoff? On average, these pay increases for 2013 will mean an average increase of $20,000 or more in salary for each Delta pilots. So the trade is $20,000 per year for 11,000+ pilots versus $10,000 per year for 110 pilots. Please, someone tell me:
1. How anyone in the world could call this cost neutral for pilots and not be unable to do basic math?
2. How this would be better for the pilot group?
3. How this would be better for even the 110 pilots that would move up a position?
So imagine you are say oh an elected leader of Council 20. Would you make that tradeoff, $1.1 million for $250 million? Not to mention that there are millions more coming in 2014 and 2015. Not to mention higher reserve guarantee more vacation and many other items. Is that a trade you would make or are you too committed to this contra agenda that you would take the path that makes you the hero of the forum crowd but could screw the pilots out of more than a billion dollars of contractual gains. Plus the opportunity to accelerate the movement of flying back to mainline. Perhaps an elected leader will face these decisions and they will have to decide whether they want some small vocal group to pat them on the back for a few days or whether they want to put money in pilots' pockets.
We would all like a situation where we just write down our demands and they are delivered to us on a silver platter. Perhaps that will come with a pretty pink pony that flies. Until that happens you will face real decisions in a real world.
09-25-2012, 06:36 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I was trying to figure out if we could get to a 9,000 pilot list. Which is hard to take in the variables especially since you cannot break out the 7ER domestic flying and you've got to take into account when a 9,000 remark would have been made and the addition of the 717s.
But, right now we're staffing the 88 fleet at around 10.1 pilots. Or at least will on Feb 13. At the same time the 320 is staffed at 11.6 and the 737 at 14.6.
So just get the 320 and 737 down to 88 staffing levels and bring the 717 on at the same level.
Heck, with the 717 take into account a 10.1 staffing number and you'd only need 889 pilots. Move all the 9 pilots over and you only need 650 pilots. Get the 320 and 737 down to 10.1 and you've eliminated 560 pilots. So now you only need 93 more pilots moving forward to staff the 717x
And that's before you get guys off the 767 into the 7ER and junior 7ER As and Bs into a lower staffed 739.
So no wonder we don't need to hire, we still are not as efficient as we can be.
But, right now we're staffing the 88 fleet at around 10.1 pilots. Or at least will on Feb 13. At the same time the 320 is staffed at 11.6 and the 737 at 14.6.
So just get the 320 and 737 down to 88 staffing levels and bring the 717 on at the same level.
Heck, with the 717 take into account a 10.1 staffing number and you'd only need 889 pilots. Move all the 9 pilots over and you only need 650 pilots. Get the 320 and 737 down to 10.1 and you've eliminated 560 pilots. So now you only need 93 more pilots moving forward to staff the 717x
And that's before you get guys off the 767 into the 7ER and junior 7ER As and Bs into a lower staffed 739.
So no wonder we don't need to hire, we still are not as efficient as we can be.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 09-25-2012 at 07:11 AM.
09-25-2012, 06:48 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Interesting. I am not defending the call... I believe it was an intx too.. but... THIS particular picture is well after the call SHOULD have been made. IF, Tate had both hands around the ball in the EZ, it is a touchdown. At this point in the play, the plane of the EZ had been broken for a long period of time, and what is happening here is irrelevant to the play and the call. Now the fact that the zebras are looking at it here shows their lack of experience and inability to make the call.. I will give them credit for taking the time to let their brains process what it is that they just saw, and make the call they thought appropriate.. right or wrong. Tuck Rule part deux.
09-25-2012, 06:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
Since we have about 7 years to hit the 9k workforce mark, now's the time to start filling surveys letting ALPA knows how we demand the company to maintain their pilot costs while having 4k less pilots sharing the pot, hence a 35% payraise. And this time we don't want to trade work rules to achieve it!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
