Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-24-2012, 09:33 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
09-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 50
09-24-2012, 10:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
So the best I have gotten is that the work rules saved the company 300 jobs and that we had an early out for 191 pilots. I will just ignore the other gains we made that increase the need for pilots and use your numbers. Unless math has changed lately that nets out to about 110 pilots. So the best you can come up with is that if capacity didn't shrink next year, they would hire 110 pilots this spring and 110 pilots would be in a higher paying category next year. In actuality no one can show that they would really need to hire next spring given where the economy has gone, but I will spot you that one too.
So on average a move up the ladder to the next higher paying position is about a $10 an hour raise under the old pay rates. That equates to about $10,000 a year income and for 110 pilots that would be $1.1 million. Now the pilot group got $80 million per year in raises in July and then another $170 million per year in January. So in 2013 we are getting $250 million per year in increased pay and 110 pilots lost a chance to make, combined, $1.1 million.
Am I the only who doesn't think that is a good tradeoff? On average, these pay increases for 2013 will mean an average increase of $20,000 or more in salary for each Delta pilots. So the trade is $20,000 per year for 11,000+ pilots versus $10,000 per year for 110 pilots. Please, someone tell me:
1. How anyone in the world could call this cost neutral for pilots and not be unable to do basic math?
2. How this would be better for the pilot group?
3. How this would be better for even the 110 pilots that would move up a position?
So imagine you are say oh an elected leader of Council 20. Would you make that tradeoff, $1.1 million for $250 million? Not to mention that there are millions more coming in 2014 and 2015. Not to mention higher reserve guarantee more vacation and many other items. Is that a trade you would make or are you too committed to this contra agenda that you would take the path that makes you the hero of the forum crowd but could screw the pilots out of more than a billion dollars of contractual gains. Plus the opportunity to accelerate the movement of flying back to mainline. Perhaps an elected leader will face these decisions and they will have to decide whether they want some small vocal group to pat them on the back for a few days or whether they want to put money in pilots' pockets.
We would all like a situation where we just write down our demands and they are delivered to us on a silver platter. Perhaps that will come with a pretty pink pony that flies. Until that happens you will face real decisions in a real world.
So on average a move up the ladder to the next higher paying position is about a $10 an hour raise under the old pay rates. That equates to about $10,000 a year income and for 110 pilots that would be $1.1 million. Now the pilot group got $80 million per year in raises in July and then another $170 million per year in January. So in 2013 we are getting $250 million per year in increased pay and 110 pilots lost a chance to make, combined, $1.1 million.
Am I the only who doesn't think that is a good tradeoff? On average, these pay increases for 2013 will mean an average increase of $20,000 or more in salary for each Delta pilots. So the trade is $20,000 per year for 11,000+ pilots versus $10,000 per year for 110 pilots. Please, someone tell me:
1. How anyone in the world could call this cost neutral for pilots and not be unable to do basic math?
2. How this would be better for the pilot group?
3. How this would be better for even the 110 pilots that would move up a position?
So imagine you are say oh an elected leader of Council 20. Would you make that tradeoff, $1.1 million for $250 million? Not to mention that there are millions more coming in 2014 and 2015. Not to mention higher reserve guarantee more vacation and many other items. Is that a trade you would make or are you too committed to this contra agenda that you would take the path that makes you the hero of the forum crowd but could screw the pilots out of more than a billion dollars of contractual gains. Plus the opportunity to accelerate the movement of flying back to mainline. Perhaps an elected leader will face these decisions and they will have to decide whether they want some small vocal group to pat them on the back for a few days or whether they want to put money in pilots' pockets.
We would all like a situation where we just write down our demands and they are delivered to us on a silver platter. Perhaps that will come with a pretty pink pony that flies. Until that happens you will face real decisions in a real world.
Alfa,
It's clear that you have problems with people having problems with the process since we're past talking about the TA. I think everyone here has conceded that it's in the past.
Your entire diatribe above is based on a ridiculous premise that the company was content to languish in section six when there were large RJs to be bought, small RJs with very expensive maintenance requirements upcoming and staffing problems to contend with. The company came to us and we had more leverage than we wound up using.
It's my opinion that we need to pay closer attention to the numbers when the FT/DT LOA is dumped on our doorstep, so we don't make that same mistake.
Nu
09-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Those were geogetg and ftb's graphs, Nu. 
I wear the cone of shame, therefore mostly fart jokes and overlooking underboob from me.
Great post!
I wear the cone of shame, therefore mostly fart jokes and overlooking underboob from me. Great post!
09-25-2012, 02:45 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
09-25-2012, 02:48 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Q. Are they about the time of our Special MEC meeting that coincides with the ALPA BOD meeting? Ala Merger Committee brief? That is nothing totally out of the ordinary fwiw.
09-25-2012, 03:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: The New Delta
Posts: 115
Double post.........
Last edited by volav8r1; 09-25-2012 at 03:11 AM. Reason: .... It's early......
09-25-2012, 03:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: The New Delta
Posts: 115
Quick question for the all knowing thread: I bid reserve this month (like an idiot), & remember seeing some discussion on here about guys timing out.
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
09-25-2012, 03:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
Quick question for the all knowing thread: I bid reserve this month (like an idiot), & remember seeing some discussion on here about guys timing out.
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
If the guarantee on my line is 72, can they assign me a trip that takes me over? Or am I essentially done for the month when i get to 72 hrs of credit?Thanks!
09-25-2012, 03:41 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Wait wha? me?
Hold on... keyword search... oh... aw man... I forgot about that.
Hold on... keyword search... oh... aw man... I forgot about that.
Ice you're right as this will be the first realignment, but ATL is not congested. The flying out of here is increasing but being done by crews not only from ATL but NYC, CVG, LAX, SLC, and DTW 744 and 330 crews. And if the rumor is right then the 320 and 9 should be here soon doing fly throughs with no base. This is the realignment of 765s and the elimination of the 767 category. The problem for ATL pilots is no 330 base on this AE so seats go out but don't come in. I think we really wish we had a 320 or 9 base in this AE but we didn't get anything but a kick in the privates.
Our best or only hope here in ATL is they decide to go fat. But I'm not planning on it. Jew Gardens here I come!
HA! iPhone autocorrects typing, type Kew and it replaces it with Jew. Funny.
Our best or only hope here in ATL is they decide to go fat. But I'm not planning on it. Jew Gardens here I come!
HA! iPhone autocorrects typing, type Kew and it replaces it with Jew. Funny.
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