Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
They need to defend it because the same process is going to be used for the FT/DT spin when that LOA is floated.
Plus it's politically embarrassing when you spend a lot of time and effort trying to spin the fact that your work rules concessions arn't going to cause 300 surplus pilots, when it's pretty obvious that it will, and then have management come out and say "yea, the new rules gave us a 300 pilot surplus".
That complicates the spin control down the road.
We went from a big AE for the RMA, and when that didn't happen, it morphed into a little one followed by a "big one in October", which has now been downsized into "backfill and cleanup", and now we"re hearing that some categories are fat, and more displacements could be in the works.
How much more "good news" is on the way?
Plus it's politically embarrassing when you spend a lot of time and effort trying to spin the fact that your work rules concessions arn't going to cause 300 surplus pilots, when it's pretty obvious that it will, and then have management come out and say "yea, the new rules gave us a 300 pilot surplus".
That complicates the spin control down the road.
We went from a big AE for the RMA, and when that didn't happen, it morphed into a little one followed by a "big one in October", which has now been downsized into "backfill and cleanup", and now we"re hearing that some categories are fat, and more displacements could be in the works.
How much more "good news" is on the way?
Still, I agree with much of your post above, especially since I fear we might be unhappy with the FTDT results. I say this because we haven't been polled on what we might or might not be willing to trade for what might or might not be on the table. I'm also concerned that a very significant agreement, which the reps acknowledged would be an oportunity to further negotiate, might be implemented without MEMRAT. I have no info that this will be the case, so I might just be paranoid, but I don't have a great feeling about the FTDT outcome yet.
I'll be glad to be proven wrong, and I imagine you feel the same way?
09-24-2012, 05:49 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,534
I don't think you want to provide any proof to the RJDC/DFR crowd. Lets just say Comair was hosed no matter which way DALPA voted on this TA.
You start taking credit for shutting down Comair, and you'll work up some of the 5%ers at my airline. Then one of my 5%ers gets one of your 5%ers all worked up, and pretty soon Boomer never gets a job anywhere ever again. Deal?
09-24-2012, 05:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: Short Bus FO
Posts: 458
Not necessarily in this order but see any patterns emerging. Some will say whatever is necessary to get what they want. Some will believe what is said every time no matter how many times they get duped.
Delta tells Cinci we are here to stay and not shrinking if merger approved.
Merger is approved and we have only a few flights left now.
Delta tells Delta pilots we will get a bunch of increased flying if we lobby with them to get the slot swap for LGA.
We lobby/win and find out Delta forgot to tell us most of the new flying is DCI RJ’s
Delta tells MSP we are there to stay and will keep jobs in the area with training and some headquarters if merger approved (remember the questioning by then Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar).
Less than three years after the merger was approved most of the training and NWA headquarters moved to ATL (Delta did pay a monetary penalty for this as MSP dignitaries didn't trust the double talk and in the end they we smart to be skeptical and require penalties if Delta didn’t follow through on promises).
Delta/ALPA imply, hint, suggest hiring to begin by the end of 2012 if we pass TA2012. The ALPA marketing machine puts out bogus numbers for hiring if we vote in TA2012 that evaporate within a couple short months because of …..wait for it…..the economy that’s exactly the same as it was when such statements were made.
ALPA says we will not hurry the negotiations for TA2012 if it causes us to marginalize the goals of our pilot group as reflected in the TA2012 survey.
ALPA does a 180, abrogates its promises, keeps its membership in the dark and hard sells an inferior agreement that is sold as hiring positive (see above).
ALPA promises to release Flight Pay Loss data when put under pressure by its constituents.
ALPA fails to produce such numbers and by now have swept all this under the carpet.
And so on and so on and so on…….
Delta tells Cinci we are here to stay and not shrinking if merger approved.
Merger is approved and we have only a few flights left now.
Delta tells Delta pilots we will get a bunch of increased flying if we lobby with them to get the slot swap for LGA.
We lobby/win and find out Delta forgot to tell us most of the new flying is DCI RJ’s
Delta tells MSP we are there to stay and will keep jobs in the area with training and some headquarters if merger approved (remember the questioning by then Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar).
Less than three years after the merger was approved most of the training and NWA headquarters moved to ATL (Delta did pay a monetary penalty for this as MSP dignitaries didn't trust the double talk and in the end they we smart to be skeptical and require penalties if Delta didn’t follow through on promises).
Delta/ALPA imply, hint, suggest hiring to begin by the end of 2012 if we pass TA2012. The ALPA marketing machine puts out bogus numbers for hiring if we vote in TA2012 that evaporate within a couple short months because of …..wait for it…..the economy that’s exactly the same as it was when such statements were made.
ALPA says we will not hurry the negotiations for TA2012 if it causes us to marginalize the goals of our pilot group as reflected in the TA2012 survey.
ALPA does a 180, abrogates its promises, keeps its membership in the dark and hard sells an inferior agreement that is sold as hiring positive (see above).
ALPA promises to release Flight Pay Loss data when put under pressure by its constituents.
ALPA fails to produce such numbers and by now have swept all this under the carpet.
And so on and so on and so on…….
Delta tells Memphis pilots that the base is "Here to stay" and less than two months later it's closed with a suprise AE and the pilots have 10 days from the announcement to decide on a bid and get it in for their new base.
09-24-2012, 06:05 PM
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Not necessarily in this order but see any patterns emerging. Some will say whatever is necessary to get what they want. Some will believe what is said every time no matter how many times they get duped.
Delta tells Cinci we are here to stay and not shrinking if merger approved.
Merger is approved and we have only a few flights left now.
Delta tells Delta pilots we will get a bunch of increased flying if we lobby with them to get the slot swap for LGA.
We lobby/win and find out Delta forgot to tell us most of the new flying is DCI RJ’s
Delta tells MSP we are there to stay and will keep jobs in the area with training and some headquarters if merger approved (remember the questioning by then Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar).
Less than three years after the merger was approved most of the training and NWA headquarters moved to ATL (Delta did pay a monetary penalty for this as MSP dignitaries didn't trust the double talk and in the end they we smart to be skeptical and require penalties if Delta didn’t follow through on promises).
Delta/ALPA imply, hint, suggest hiring to begin by the end of 2012 if we pass TA2012. The ALPA marketing machine puts out bogus numbers for hiring if we vote in TA2012 that evaporate within a couple short months because of …..wait for it…..the economy that’s exactly the same as it was when such statements were made.
ALPA says we will not hurry the negotiations for TA2012 if it causes us to marginalize the goals of our pilot group as reflected in the TA2012 survey.
ALPA does a 180, abrogates its promises, keeps its membership in the dark and hard sells an inferior agreement that is sold as hiring positive (see above).
ALPA promises to release Flight Pay Loss data when put under pressure by its constituents.
ALPA fails to produce such numbers and by now have swept all this under the carpet.
And so on and so on and so on…….
Delta tells Cinci we are here to stay and not shrinking if merger approved.
Merger is approved and we have only a few flights left now.
Delta tells Delta pilots we will get a bunch of increased flying if we lobby with them to get the slot swap for LGA.
We lobby/win and find out Delta forgot to tell us most of the new flying is DCI RJ’s
Delta tells MSP we are there to stay and will keep jobs in the area with training and some headquarters if merger approved (remember the questioning by then Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar).
Less than three years after the merger was approved most of the training and NWA headquarters moved to ATL (Delta did pay a monetary penalty for this as MSP dignitaries didn't trust the double talk and in the end they we smart to be skeptical and require penalties if Delta didn’t follow through on promises).
Delta/ALPA imply, hint, suggest hiring to begin by the end of 2012 if we pass TA2012. The ALPA marketing machine puts out bogus numbers for hiring if we vote in TA2012 that evaporate within a couple short months because of …..wait for it…..the economy that’s exactly the same as it was when such statements were made.
ALPA says we will not hurry the negotiations for TA2012 if it causes us to marginalize the goals of our pilot group as reflected in the TA2012 survey.
ALPA does a 180, abrogates its promises, keeps its membership in the dark and hard sells an inferior agreement that is sold as hiring positive (see above).
ALPA promises to release Flight Pay Loss data when put under pressure by its constituents.
ALPA fails to produce such numbers and by now have swept all this under the carpet.
And so on and so on and so on…….
Disgraceful.
09-24-2012, 06:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Yes, forgot about that one. I'm sure if guys really think about this more will emerge. The question is, will the cheerleaders and "give em one more chance" people ever say no.
09-24-2012, 06:09 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Apologies in advance Buzz but:
GO SEAHAWKS!!!!
What a great first half!! Aarons got to have a few bruises....
Denny
GO SEAHAWKS!!!!
What a great first half!! Aarons got to have a few bruises....Denny
09-24-2012, 06:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
I thought we would get at least a gratuitous couple hundred hires this year. "Good boy - you signed the TA like we asked you to. Now here's a biscuit." It looks like they decided they don't even need to do that. And spot on to you guys who said the economy hasn't changed that much since we were sold the TA. They just shift the wording slowly over time and hope most of us have a short memory. Which, as a group, I guess we do.
09-24-2012, 06:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,534
...Delta tells Comair "take a pay freeze and we'll give you 35 planes, otherwise we give them to Republicqua."
...Three months later Delta says "Oops, we're in BK. Those planes are going to Freedom and Republicqua."
...Delta tells Comair "Vote for a pay cut in BK if you want to keep all your 70s."
...Four months later Delta awards half of Comair's 70s to SKW and ASA.
...Delta tells BK Judge to throw out Comair's pilot contract so Comair can grow again. Submits loss of 70s to SKW and ASA as "evidence" that Comair is too expensive.
...On the same day Comair emerges from BK, Delta awards 12 900s to Pinnacle Airlines (huh? isn't Pinnacle one of Northwest's regionals?)
...Delta signs three year fleet guarantee with Comair in return for BK concessions.
...Within days of fleet guarantee expiring, Delta awards 25 aircraft to SKW, Republicqua, and Compass. Comair gets zero.
...Delta tells Freedom "Cancel those JFK flights. We need the slots. We won't hold it against you"
...Delta fires Freedom for failing to meet completion targets.
...Delta awards Freedom 900s to Comair.
...Before actual delivery to Comair, Delta decides they really belong at Pinnacle. Wait, no, Mesaba. And later, some to ASA.
...Delta tells Comair they have too many 50s. Parking a hundred will reduce costs and keep Comair competitive.
...Comair shrinks to 44 aircraft and Delta says "Now you're too expensive. You need to close."
09-24-2012, 07:05 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
If the 9,000 number is not necessarily the seniority list but actual pilots flying, which I suspect it is, then we need to lose by my count somewhere around 1,470 pilots. (rounding)
By January 25, 2019... the plug here hits 9,000 if everyone stays to 65.
Unless everyone goes out early, then you can move that up proportionally.
By January 25, 2019... the plug here hits 9,000 if everyone stays to 65.
Unless everyone goes out early, then you can move that up proportionally.
09-24-2012, 07:06 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I can think of one or two...
...Delta tells Comair "take a pay freeze and we'll give you 35 planes, otherwise we give them to Republicqua."
...Three months later Delta says "Oops, we're in BK. Those planes are going to Freedom and Republicqua."
...Delta tells Comair "Vote for a pay cut in BK if you want to keep all your 70s."
...Four months later Delta awards half of Comair's 70s to SKW and ASA.
...Delta tells BK Judge to throw out Comair's pilot contract so Comair can grow again. Submits loss of 70s to SKW and ASA as "evidence" that Comair is too expensive.
...On the same day Comair emerges from BK, Delta awards 12 900s to Pinnacle Airlines (huh? isn't Pinnacle one of Northwest's regionals?)
...Delta signs three year fleet guarantee with Comair in return for BK concessions.
...Within days of fleet guarantee expiring, Delta awards 25 aircraft to SKW, Republicqua, and Compass. Comair gets zero.
...Delta tells Freedom "Cancel those JFK flights. We need the slots. We won't hold it against you"
...Delta fires Freedom for failing to meet completion targets.
...Delta awards Freedom 900s to Comair.
...Before actual delivery to Comair, Delta decides they really belong at Pinnacle. Wait, no, Mesaba. And later, some to ASA.
...Delta tells Comair they have too many 50s. Parking a hundred will reduce costs and keep Comair competitive.
...Comair shrinks to 44 aircraft and Delta says "Now you're too expensive. You need to close."
...Delta tells Comair "take a pay freeze and we'll give you 35 planes, otherwise we give them to Republicqua."
...Three months later Delta says "Oops, we're in BK. Those planes are going to Freedom and Republicqua."
...Delta tells Comair "Vote for a pay cut in BK if you want to keep all your 70s."
...Four months later Delta awards half of Comair's 70s to SKW and ASA.
...Delta tells BK Judge to throw out Comair's pilot contract so Comair can grow again. Submits loss of 70s to SKW and ASA as "evidence" that Comair is too expensive.
...On the same day Comair emerges from BK, Delta awards 12 900s to Pinnacle Airlines (huh? isn't Pinnacle one of Northwest's regionals?)
...Delta signs three year fleet guarantee with Comair in return for BK concessions.
...Within days of fleet guarantee expiring, Delta awards 25 aircraft to SKW, Republicqua, and Compass. Comair gets zero.
...Delta tells Freedom "Cancel those JFK flights. We need the slots. We won't hold it against you"
...Delta fires Freedom for failing to meet completion targets.
...Delta awards Freedom 900s to Comair.
...Before actual delivery to Comair, Delta decides they really belong at Pinnacle. Wait, no, Mesaba. And later, some to ASA.
...Delta tells Comair they have too many 50s. Parking a hundred will reduce costs and keep Comair competitive.
...Comair shrinks to 44 aircraft and Delta says "Now you're too expensive. You need to close."
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