tsquare

As a member of the base that is DIRECTLY affected by the pulldown in IST, I think I can opine as to how much I think that sucks. That being said, our route guys have done a pretty damn good job of bringing our revenue stream up to the lead in the industry in their choices of destinations. No category in our system has been more drastically affected by the decimation of the European economy than the NY 7ER.
So.. what makes UAL think they are gonna make boatloads of money going from EWR, when DAL, who had been serving that market for years, perhaps did not? UAL pulled back from their foray into Africa when they found that those markets could not support two carriers. Maybe this will be the same. Turkish flies from JFK to IST. Maybe there is room for one.. and not two. I guess my point is that there is nothing to indicate that the route people at UAL are better rocket surgeons than our guys. We will find out.

TANSTAAFL

Alpha,

I agree with you in many regards even if you are an arrogant p#%k.

The economy has and always will drive this business. No one expected instant hiring. ALPA and the Co, created that expectation and is now backing away from it. The rub is the economy was deliberately down played while all the rosy prognostications were being made. The fact that it is now not so rosy is exactly what many were concerned with which were the lies you had to counter in the hiring T&G?

Rumor is the 717 could be delayed due to AD compliance and SWA having "difficulty" getting parts (?), which is directly tied to hiring, we are now dropping much point to point in Europe in favor of the old NWA/KLM model, which will result in less net traffic for everyone, and again delay hiring (which of course was completely dismissed during the SLI/JCBA discussion)

I have a feeling if the candid conversations about the effect of the economy had gotten as much airtime as it is now, the TA passage might have been more questionable, which is of course why it didn't.

The only lack of critical thinking I see Alpha is an institutional arrogance that thinks they are the only ones with the correct answers. I find it highly ironic you are now defending the TA with many of the same arguements made against the TA at the time. I'm used to TA's falling short, but usually not before much of it is even implemented.

Back to my belly button, and for all our sakes hoping to be proven wrong in the long run.

Pineapple Guy

Classy post.

UncleSam

Just so you understand, I copied this from an email I received. I didn't make any of these comments nor do I put any confidence in them. It is true that our stock has gone nowhere for months. I'm sure that is frustrating for RA.

tsquare

Talking points? mmmmmmkay. I prefer facts, but whatever term makes you feel good.

Boomer

I went back to find some of Lundberg's outrageous claims. Found this instead...

It's Monday.

Boomer

As a non-Delta pilot, I never had access to official DALPA documents.

All I had was APC, so I'll call them "talking points" rather than "facts".

Sink r8

I tend to think you guys are correct on one point: Europe's woes are being used to mask a pullback that looks to be intentional and planned, where we feed one another's hub, and forgo direct flights. If it were not so, we'd stick with frequency reductions. I just don't get the feeling there is an intention to add direct flights back later, especially not after a US-based STAR or oneworld competitor gets in.

I think this a foolish move a) because it adds connections, b) because competitors are frequently interested in filling the void, and c) some pax have a prference for a carrier from their own country. JFK-CDG-bravethebaggagrhandlerstrikemisconnecttryingtofibd therightterminalcatchanA320sichourslaterandsitnext toasmellyguyinamddleseat-BUD is NOT the same as JFK-BUD.

When furloughed, I sometimes had to buy tickets for employees, for example to Korea from the East Coast. I would get a limousine to JFK, and KAL direct, over a flight via DTW and NRT. My boss once let a travel agent buy such a ticket on NW, and swore he would never do it again, based on the extra connection(s).

Bottom line, every time you add a flight segment, especially on another airline, you increase the chance of an insatisfactory experience exponentially.

This feels like the SECOND time we're going to squander all of the PanAm Atlantic rights we grossly overpaid for.

forgot to bid

Was Herm posting pics of his wife on APW? I'm kind of confused.

Speaking of that, I see what the drudgereport did here...

Denny Crane

Didn't we used to have a "business hub" in the middle of Europe called Frankfurt..........!?!

Denny