Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Absent the critical component, the pilot contract, which the company just confirmed, this refleeting wouldn't have happened. Thank goodness most of the Delta pilots didn't have tin hats on, there never is guaranteed growth in any CBA. The contracts can however create the environment for growth, which this one did. Most of us saw that and the reps had the courage to make the right call.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
It wasn't tin foil hats, it was concern over the vagueness of the commitments. Many that were suspect also stated that if the business plan is moderate plus, the DAL pilots would be pleased.
As to the last part, you are correct and we got aircraft not jet protection at 70 seats and below but the quid was 102 70 seat jets. They would have had to swap those 70's out for those 76 seat jets.
Either way, the vote is long gone, and we have a PWA. Move forward, I have.
09-07-2012, 10:59 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I chose my words carefully.
It limited the possible number of 76-seat aircraft to 223, up from the max of 155 allowed under the old PWA unless we grew massively, but down from 255 which would've been allowed had we (again) grown massively and 70 seaters had been parked along the way.
The rest of what you said is nonsense.
Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.
The rest of what you said is nonsense.
09-07-2012, 11:02 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
One way to get to 796 jets, go from 722 - 19 DC9s + 21 MD90s - 16 763 Domestics + 88 717s = 796 jets and a net growth of 628ish seats.
Subject to change before 2015 via merger, acquisitions and changes in the domestic and global economy.
Subject to change before 2015 via merger, acquisitions and changes in the domestic and global economy.
09-07-2012, 11:11 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Great reporting by the way. Curious about the 2013-2014 hiring.
Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.
Ah, but a merger allows you to do different things with different fleets. After all today we don't have PMDAL plus a PMNWA fleet. You could merge with Alaska, drop their 734s, trade in their 739s, add their 739ER order to ours post trade in, drop something we don't want to keep on our side, etc.
It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).
To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...
circle gets the square.
*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.
Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.
Ah, but a merger allows you to do different things with different fleets. After all today we don't have PMDAL plus a PMNWA fleet. You could merge with Alaska, drop their 734s, trade in their 739s, add their 739ER order to ours post trade in, drop something we don't want to keep on our side, etc.
It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).
To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...
circle gets the square.
*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.
09-07-2012, 11:12 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
09-07-2012, 11:13 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Absent the critical component, the pilot contract, which the company just confirmed, this refleeting wouldn't have happened. Thank goodness most of the Delta pilots didn't have tin hats on, there never is guaranteed growth in any CBA. The contracts can however create the environment for growth, which this one did. Most of us saw that and the reps had the courage to make the right call.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
What I bolded is what I think is koolaid-spew.
09-07-2012, 11:13 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Could you point to the language that "guarantees" RJ growth.
Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.
Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.
09-07-2012, 11:14 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
A 796 mainline fleet and a 425 DCI would probably give us a ratio of, what, 1.77?
Overkill. They'd be free to cut out some more mainline flying without touching DCI.
Overkill. They'd be free to cut out some more mainline flying without touching DCI.
09-07-2012, 11:17 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
How do you figure it is koolaid spew? Point me to one fact that would support that POV. Can any contract guarantee growth? Or can they merely provide the vehicle in the event economic and other factors are favorable for that growth.
09-07-2012, 11:18 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
And even if you are right, the company would be utilizing the DCI aircraft at a pathetically low rate. Not what I would call a sound business plan by any stretch of the imagination. Of course you see it differently.
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