Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-02-2012, 04:22 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Sailing;
We get it and FWIW, you are correct.
Only time will tell if the retirees are fully backfilled. In reality, I do not expect them to be fully backfilled. Do you?
We get it and FWIW, you are correct.
Only time will tell if the retirees are fully backfilled. In reality, I do not expect them to be fully backfilled. Do you?
09-02-2012, 04:30 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Except for one fact. Everyone wants to quote the ALPA number. That number depending on who put it out was 250 to 350. The official communication actually listed 250. They were targeting and expected almost all those retirements to come from pilots 63 to 65. That is what they put out. The reality is that they got 191 pilots however the biggest majority were in the age 59 to 61 bracket. I put that out earlier and it was disputed by some but others posted the exact ages and it backs up what I stated to the letter.
So ALPA was wrong in their forcast. The program actually turned out better then they expected for Delta pilots. The side benefit is all those pilots 63 to 65 who were expected to go but did not will also be leaving soon anyway. I understand that 8 pilots who retire before next June did not even take the program.
So ALPA was wrong in their forcast. The program actually turned out better then they expected for Delta pilots. The side benefit is all those pilots 63 to 65 who were expected to go but did not will also be leaving soon anyway. I understand that 8 pilots who retire before next June did not even take the program.
09-02-2012, 05:22 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
It still doesn't make his statement not downright stupid. All the early outs have gone to the same age range, so 300 would be better than 191. As per your example, this "bump" will evaporate over 3-5 years... and to top it off, they didn't backfill beyond one layer either.
My seniority number has gone up, but I'm more junior than I was in 2008.
My seniority number has gone up, but I'm more junior than I was in 2008.
This is a different but still a very valid point. I liken it to climbing up a rope burning from below. If you are one foot from the bottom and climb 10 feet yet 10 feet of the rope has burned you are still - 1 foot from the bottom!
But seriously, early retirees generally benefit the top 1/3 more than any one else. For example lets look at a pilot group of 100 of which 25% retire early:
100-75% Sitting on the beach somewhere with umbrellas in their drinks.
75-50% - Now the top 1/3 huge QOL improvement.
50-25% - Now the middle 1/3 moderate QOL improvement.
25-0% - Still the bottom 1/3 complaining about the reserve bucket system.
Early retirees with no hiring definitely has some value, and could at times prevent and /or lessen furloughs but the benefit is not evenly spread throughout the Pilot group.
This is exactly what happened around 2005 with the Lump sum departures. Thousands of Pilots left early and many of the more senior Pilots moved up nicely, but the bottom dudes were still on the bottom.
Now it was definitely a benefit - look at the AMR and UAL situation and you will realize this, but the bottom line is when you are on the bottom of the list given a choice you would definitely want new hires below you not early retirees off the top.
Scoop
09-02-2012, 05:24 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
09-02-2012, 05:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Except for one fact. Everyone wants to quote the ALPA number. That number depending on who put it out was 250 to 350. The official communication actually listed 250. They were targeting and expected almost all those retirements to come from pilots 63 to 65. That is what they put out. The reality is that they got 191 pilots however the biggest majority were in the age 59 to 61 bracket. I put that out earlier and it was disputed by some but others posted the exact ages and it backs up what I stated to the letter.
So ALPA was wrong in their forcast. The program actually turned out better then they expected for Delta pilots. The side benefit is all those pilots 63 to 65 who were expected to go but did not will also be leaving soon anyway. I understand that 8 pilots who retire before next June did not even take the program.
So ALPA was wrong in their forcast. The program actually turned out better then they expected for Delta pilots. The side benefit is all those pilots 63 to 65 who were expected to go but did not will also be leaving soon anyway. I understand that 8 pilots who retire before next June did not even take the program.
09-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
09-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
09-02-2012, 06:14 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Sailing can do his own defending and he and I have had our disagreements but: Do you have access to a seniority list. If so, it has their retirement date. If Sailing is an ALPA "waterboy" why did he post the many reasons he was voting no on the TA?
Are you intelligent in real life and just like to pretend you aren't when you are on APC?
09-02-2012, 06:18 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Sailing can do his own defending and he and I have had our disagreements but: Do you have access to a seniority list. If so, it has their retirement date. If Sailing is an ALPA "waterboy" why did he post the many reasons he was voting no on the TA?
Are you intelligent in real life and just like to pretend you aren't when you are on APC?
Are you intelligent in real life and just like to pretend you aren't when you are on APC?
09-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Yeah, I [deleted] hate those too. In fact, I've never seen the [deleted] manager ever in my 20 or so [deleted] stays there in the past year. He must be hanging with Dieter or the rude staff at the [deleted] attached restaurant that closes way too early on a weekend night.
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