Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-23-2012, 08:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Using your logic "regional" pilots should have used their employment as leverage. You advocate putting responsibility for your scope in the hands of another pilot.
Using my logic, mainline pilots should have used our employment as leverage. We had the representational duty. Our contract was involved and we enjoy the exclusive right to bargain with the management team which controls the code. I am willing to put my job up as leverage to protect my scope. We should be men and take responsibility for our contract.
I will strike over scope. In the past pilots typed their letters of resignation and handed them to their union Representatives during negotiations.
Thus far, American has served as a test case for some of my more extreme views on scope preservation. We will see how it turns out.
Using my logic, mainline pilots should have used our employment as leverage. We had the representational duty. Our contract was involved and we enjoy the exclusive right to bargain with the management team which controls the code. I am willing to put my job up as leverage to protect my scope. We should be men and take responsibility for our contract.
I will strike over scope. In the past pilots typed their letters of resignation and handed them to their union Representatives during negotiations.
Thus far, American has served as a test case for some of my more extreme views on scope preservation. We will see how it turns out.
08-23-2012, 09:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,182
Xtreme,
My favorite are the Regional guys who constantly complain about DAL Pilots for relaxing Scope over the years. While I agree our Scope relaxation has been disappointing there is plenty of blame to go around.
Lets put this in perspective. These are for the most part guys who took advantage of the DCI growth and got hired on with the regionals.
Now that they have their hours and are ready to move on to the majors outsourcing is bad and it is clearly the fault of "greedy" DAL Pilots "selling" Scope at every opportunity.
Here we have a "typical" DAL Pilot contemplating the latest Scope sale.
What is more selfish then the Regional Pilot who votes yes for outsourcing by taking the job in the first place and then as soon as he is ready to move to the majors bemoans the whole practice. Talk about raising the ladder behind you.
Scoop
My favorite are the Regional guys who constantly complain about DAL Pilots for relaxing Scope over the years. While I agree our Scope relaxation has been disappointing there is plenty of blame to go around.
Lets put this in perspective. These are for the most part guys who took advantage of the DCI growth and got hired on with the regionals.
Now that they have their hours and are ready to move on to the majors outsourcing is bad and it is clearly the fault of "greedy" DAL Pilots "selling" Scope at every opportunity.
Here we have a "typical" DAL Pilot contemplating the latest Scope sale.
What is more selfish then the Regional Pilot who votes yes for outsourcing by taking the job in the first place and then as soon as he is ready to move to the majors bemoans the whole practice. Talk about raising the ladder behind you.
Scoop
On another note many of us did not take advantage of DCI scope sales (That we DID not have any control over) to get into DCI. When I took my very first regional job it was because my breaking the 1000 Turbine PIC did nothing for me getting an interview at ANY legacies. So yes I humbly took myself to the regionals since I couldn't get the DAL interview even with triple their minimums. I guessed it was the only way in since DAL wasn't out front recruiting at my flight school.
I know I may have misunderstood your post as an attack but I am very sensitive to the legacy pilots looking down on the regional guys like they have something to do with scope sales.
I vowed I would NEVER forget my roots and what I had to do to get to where I am today.
Last edited by XtremeF150; 08-23-2012 at 09:16 AM. Reason: my poor spelling
08-23-2012, 09:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,182
Using your logic "regional" pilots should have used their employment as leverage. You advocate putting responsibility for your scope in the hands of another pilot.
Using my logic, mainline pilots should have used our employment as leverage. We had the representational duty. Our contract was involved and we enjoy the exclusive right to bargain with the management team which controls the code. I am willing to put my job up as leverage to protect my scope. We should be men and take responsibility for our contract.
I will strike over scope. In the past pilots typed their letters of resignation and handed them to their union Representatives during negotiations.
Thus far, American has served as a test case for some of my more extreme views on scope preservation. We will see how it turns out.
Using my logic, mainline pilots should have used our employment as leverage. We had the representational duty. Our contract was involved and we enjoy the exclusive right to bargain with the management team which controls the code. I am willing to put my job up as leverage to protect my scope. We should be men and take responsibility for our contract.
I will strike over scope. In the past pilots typed their letters of resignation and handed them to their union Representatives during negotiations.
Thus far, American has served as a test case for some of my more extreme views on scope preservation. We will see how it turns out.
I can't believe some of the legacy pilots still think they can vote scope out and expect someone else to make the tough decision and turn down the flying. The buck stops here! Either don't vote for them (large rj's) or don't chastize the regional guy for flying it.
Last edited by XtremeF150; 08-23-2012 at 09:35 AM. Reason: spelling
08-23-2012, 09:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I won't throw this, because that sounds like it could be a word. But you came close. I would have thrown it anyway, but these days its embarassing to have your penalty over turned in the replay booth, where everyone gets to micro-analyze everything in super hi def slow mo and then pile on the ref for a blown call.
08-23-2012, 09:18 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Whether the regionals operate little props or big jets, they're primary purpose for a vast majority of pilots is to be the means to TPIC and a job at the majors. A simple stepping stone. As the airplanes get bigger and become less regional and more replacement and then just later flat out reroute jets, the fewer jobs there are available at mainline, the more regional pilots give up and settle in for a career and the longer the stagnation becomes at the regionals.
But rest assured no matter the size of the aircraft at a regional, pilots will still come in hopes of getting a job here. Sure SJS might strike them just like the "I ain't going if it's not Boeing" strikes guys here, or worse, pay for scope.
So I don't blame a regional pilot for being perturbed and wishing we'd take back scope even if it cuts jobs out from under them. In fact, I think you'd find more of them willing to take that hit then you'd find pilots on our side willing to take a pay cut to get scope back.
But why throw things at them for stuff they cannot control while ignoring pilots complaining about regional jets in their way here who have no intention of voting for a scope recapture?
But rest assured no matter the size of the aircraft at a regional, pilots will still come in hopes of getting a job here. Sure SJS might strike them just like the "I ain't going if it's not Boeing" strikes guys here, or worse, pay for scope.
So I don't blame a regional pilot for being perturbed and wishing we'd take back scope even if it cuts jobs out from under them. In fact, I think you'd find more of them willing to take that hit then you'd find pilots on our side willing to take a pay cut to get scope back.
But why throw things at them for stuff they cannot control while ignoring pilots complaining about regional jets in their way here who have no intention of voting for a scope recapture?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-23-2012 at 09:36 AM.
08-23-2012, 09:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
Bar,
I disagree. By taking jobs at DCI they were active participants in the outsourcing. However, I do not blame them one bit for taking those jobs - they needed hours and that is how most guys get them today.
I do take exception with people who live in glass houses throwing stones. Particularly when they are throwing stones at the DAL Pilot group.
Over 1000 DAL Pilost were furloughed when DCI exploded post 911. I do not recall hearing a lot of DCI Pilots complaining about DAL selling Scope back then - although I would bet that a very few of the more farsighted ones actually did.
Like I said, plenty of blame to go around regarding Scope. In hindsight its easy to be be critical of the legacy Pilot groups but if someone actually took the time to research the Scope issue going back 25-30 years they would see it is a lot more complicated than "Greedy mainline pilots selling Scope."
Scoop
I disagree. By taking jobs at DCI they were active participants in the outsourcing. However, I do not blame them one bit for taking those jobs - they needed hours and that is how most guys get them today.
I do take exception with people who live in glass houses throwing stones. Particularly when they are throwing stones at the DAL Pilot group.
Over 1000 DAL Pilost were furloughed when DCI exploded post 911. I do not recall hearing a lot of DCI Pilots complaining about DAL selling Scope back then - although I would bet that a very few of the more farsighted ones actually did.
Like I said, plenty of blame to go around regarding Scope. In hindsight its easy to be be critical of the legacy Pilot groups but if someone actually took the time to research the Scope issue going back 25-30 years they would see it is a lot more complicated than "Greedy mainline pilots selling Scope."
Scoop
08-23-2012, 09:31 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
First, I said the AA 1113(c) would get denied the first time and then approved the second time, you told me I was nuts, what happened? While the judge will abrogate the scope contract as well, that will be overturned by another court. If it's not however, then our union days are basically over.
Second, there is a big difference between slandering the company on personal social media and saying the delta pilots are this and that for voting in a TA on a public anonymous forum.
Second, there is a big difference between slandering the company on personal social media and saying the delta pilots are this and that for voting in a TA on a public anonymous forum.
08-23-2012, 09:38 AM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,759
Miami Dolphins Cheerleaders "Call Me Maybe" by Carly Rae - YouTube
08-23-2012, 09:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,182
DALPA selling scope is one of the reasons I got stuck at a regional for almost eight years! Ask yourself this question.... Would the regionals be as big as they are if Delta pilots had held the line on scope? Why are the regionals as big as they are? Is it because there are lots of "active participants in the outsourcing" applying to the regionals? Or is it because they're getting contract flying from their major partners and need to hire pilots? It's pretty simple... it's our job to fight to keep our flying in house. There's a certain amount of flying to be done. Do we have work rules that keep Delta mainline pilots up front or do we have rules that allow management to grow DCI? Here's a graphical representation...
You guys crack me up with the pictures
08-23-2012, 09:47 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
As Denny said, if it sucks so bad here, and 2/3ds of us are cheese eating surrender monkeys, why in the hell would he want to come work here?
Last edited by tsquare; 08-23-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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