filejw

JFK to both places, some loss of flying inter- port for winter but I forget the city.Some limited charter returns mid October.

flyallnite

The latest and greatest about 2 anonymous regional pilots thread is getting really stale. Can we please have more:

1. McKayla Memes.
2. Hiring rumors
3. T-Square/Carl rematches
4. Airplane rumors
5. Underboob
6. A/E rumors
7. Really anything

Bucking Bar

Scoop,

More to the point, the "regional" guys are complaining that the jobs that were clearly mainline jobs are gone. They had no say in the matter.

By outsourcing, we have made entry level positions as much of a career as there is to be had. By breaking our definition of alter ego, we have left their world a place of brutal competition with no where else to go (except the expat life or backwards.)

We did the right thing (generally) with C2012. It is in our mutual interest to see Delta hire as flying is transferred back.

nwaf16dude

As far as I know, green slip on reserve off-days is the only way to get a payback day. Is there another kind of PB day?

TeddyKGB

I don't imagine they will complain when the DCI block hours are cut and a bunch of DCI airplanes get parked.

Scoop

Bar,

I disagree. By taking jobs at DCI they were active participants in the outsourcing. However, I do not blame them one bit for taking those jobs - they needed hours and that is how most guys get them today.

I do take exception with people who live in glass houses throwing stones. Particularly when they are throwing stones at the DAL Pilot group.

Over 1000 DAL Pilost were furloughed when DCI exploded post 911. I do not recall hearing a lot of DCI Pilots complaining about DAL selling Scope back then - although I would bet that a very few of the more farsighted ones actually did.


Like I said, plenty of blame to go around regarding Scope. In hindsight its easy to be be critical of the legacy Pilot groups but if someone actually took the time to research the Scope issue going back 25-30 years they would see it is a lot more complicated than "Greedy mainline pilots selling Scope."

Scoop

Phuz

Sure I got hired by a regional before I would have been competitive for a job at a major. That was a result of the existince of the regional industry which had exploded after the 1990s. Like the majority of my peers, my choices were 1) Continue CFI@18k/yr 2) Get 121 regional experience @30k/yr 3) Leave career field. We all make decisions based on our particular set of circumstances at that particular moment. Most individuals want to see our circumstances improve, and will make decisions to achieve that result. When you hear a regional guy of any affiliation complaining about scope relaxation you are only seeing another person trying to improve his circumstance further. There is a difference between raising the ladder and raising the tide, lifting all boats

Once a person enters the industry they are going to learn a few things. Call it the ignorance defense if you have to, but the scope conversation hadn't permeated the flight schools and colleges in 2003. Everyone learns things over time, it isn't really practical to expect someone to entirely understand an industry before they enter it. Granted we should all do our research and I don't blame anyone for where I am today, but you're implying that I should just quit talking about improving the career field further.

I think many of us who've been in the regional game for a while now feel that there would be an equal number of pilot jobs as we have today if all of those jobs were located on a mainline seniority list. Legislation has also changed recently, now requiring regionals to also employ pilots at minimums which were a decade ago competitive for jobs at the major level. Why then is it not possible to employ everyone under the branded mainline list? As "pie in the sky" as that idea may be and as junior in the industry as I personally may be, it is still in my opinion an outcome worth steering toward and worth talking to others about.

forgot to bid

editing..........

forgot to bid

Scoop, if a civilian pilot does not take the regional job someone else will and that person will be at the majors long long before the one who said no.

Bucking Bar

Using your logic "regional" pilots should have used their employment as leverage. You advocate putting responsibility for your scope in the hands of another pilot.

Using my logic, mainline pilots should have used our employment as leverage. We had the representational duty. Our contract was involved and we enjoy the exclusive right to bargain with the management team which controls the code. I am willing to put my job up as leverage to protect my scope. We should be men and take responsibility for our contract.

I will strike over scope. In the past pilots typed their letters of resignation and handed them to their union Representatives during negotiations.

Thus far, American has served as a test case for some of my more extreme views on scope preservation. We will see how it turns out.