Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-14-2012, 12:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 489
08-14-2012, 12:24 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
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Posts: 12,109
08-14-2012, 12:31 PM
Banned
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08-14-2012, 12:35 PM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Ya know what? You are wrong on one very important level. All the "junior" guys have a very very important luxury that the "older" guys do not have. Time. It really needs no explanation. That being said, while I am not going to cry over the spilled milk, I do not believe scope is for sale 'at any price' no matter how hard you and ftb try to paint me otherwise. Younger, junior guys have that luxury to recover whereas the more senior guys do not. To say that the junior guys have a more holistic approach is utter nonsense. They are analyzing it just as hard as any of the senior guys, it comes back to that time thingy again... There is a balance that must be struck, that is all I am saying, and I think the NC did a great job of doing so. ftb and you obviously do not agree, so the more senior should take a paycut to satisfy YOUR wishes... Talk about selfish.
To continue with the same question I asked ftb. Do YOU think they are gonna get the CAL scope clause at UAL, and if so, what are they gonna have to give up to get it? Or.. Is Jeff just gonna give them a 40% payraise AND the more restrictive scope?
To continue with the same question I asked ftb. Do YOU think they are gonna get the CAL scope clause at UAL, and if so, what are they gonna have to give up to get it? Or.. Is Jeff just gonna give them a 40% payraise AND the more restrictive scope?
08-14-2012, 12:37 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
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08-14-2012, 12:40 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Can I assume that is a TIC question? Or are you truly oblivious to the world around you? Just in case you haven't noticed, all the guys that are nearing retirement age have been in BK contracts during the majority of what should have been their prime earning years. But now I guess it is chic to throw them under the bus so that ftb can have a 70 seat airplane to drive around. I am just now getting to my prime earning years, so this isn't about me... it's about balance. Always has been.
08-14-2012, 01:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 402
Ya know what? You are wrong on one very important level. All the "junior" guys have a very very important luxury that the "older" guys do not have. Time. It really needs no explanation. That being said, while I am not going to cry over the spilled milk, I do not believe scope is for sale 'at any price' no matter how hard you and ftb try to paint me otherwise. Younger, junior guys have that luxury to recover whereas the more senior guys do not. To say that the junior guys have a more holistic approach is utter nonsense. They are analyzing it just as hard as any of the senior guys, it comes back to that time thingy again... There is a balance that must be struck, that is all I am saying, and I think the NC did a great job of doing so. ftb and you obviously do not agree, so the more senior should take a paycut to satisfy YOUR wishes... Talk about selfish.
Pay...well I think if you thought about it, my pay as a junior B has always been relative to what the A's and senior guys have made. So we have SHARED that burden of pay losses and benefited when the times were good, relative to each others respective position. Moving forward I will not have the earnings potential that you enjoyed in previous contracts(albiet brief) as the crack spread between what you made 20 years ago and what it could buy vs what I will make now to the next 10-20 years will buy.
Selfish...., I dont enjoy any of your benefits from any pension, I now make less than you did in my position, and I am stagant at the low end of the senority system because we gave up 5 years for you to recoupe your pension losses from a pension that I never had. Toss that in with the outsourceing of the low end jobs here and what I am left is a career that is worth SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than than what you have been able to recoupe.
Talk to me about selfish.
I voted against C12k, but I support the wishes of the majority of my pilot group, and I now support the contract as such.......but dont have the gall to call me selfish and try and to justify it by saying I have the luxury of time.
08-14-2012, 01:21 PM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Can I assume that is a TIC question? Or are you truly oblivious to the world around you? Just in case you haven't noticed, all the guys that are nearing retirement age have been in BK contracts during the majority of what should have been their prime earning years. But now I guess it is chic to throw them under the bus so that ftb can have a 70 seat airplane to drive around. I am just now getting to my prime earning years, so this isn't about me... it's about balance. Always has been.
08-14-2012, 01:35 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Really....time for the junior guys makes it ok for the senior guys to trade scope for pay? I disagree. I am very junior here at Ma Del. I do not have a pension that is frozen, I do not have a pension that is a shell of its former self in the PBGC, I do not have ANY Delta retirement what so ever except the the 401K here, of which you also enjoy the same benefit from. I will never get a pension from Delta, not the even the deflated one you will recieve. There is no time for me to make up for what you already have.
Pay...well I think if you thought about it, my pay as a junior B has always been relative to what the A's and senior guys have made. So we have SHARED that burden of pay losses and benefited when the times were good, relative to each others respective position. Moving forward I will not have the earnings potential that you enjoyed in previous contracts(albiet brief) as the crack spread between what you made 20 years ago and what it could buy vs what I will make now to the next 10-20 years will buy.
Selfish...., I dont enjoy any of your benefits from any pension, I now make less than you did in my position, and I am stagant at the low end of the senority system because we gave up 5 years for you to recoupe your pension losses from a pension that I never had. Toss that in with the outsourceing of the low end jobs here and what I am left is a career that is worth SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than than what you have been able to recoupe.
Talk to me about selfish.
I voted against C12k, but I support the wishes of the majority of my pilot group, and I now support the contract as such.......but dont have the gall to call me selfish and try and to justify it by saying I have the luxury of time.
Pay...well I think if you thought about it, my pay as a junior B has always been relative to what the A's and senior guys have made. So we have SHARED that burden of pay losses and benefited when the times were good, relative to each others respective position. Moving forward I will not have the earnings potential that you enjoyed in previous contracts(albiet brief) as the crack spread between what you made 20 years ago and what it could buy vs what I will make now to the next 10-20 years will buy.
Selfish...., I dont enjoy any of your benefits from any pension, I now make less than you did in my position, and I am stagant at the low end of the senority system because we gave up 5 years for you to recoupe your pension losses from a pension that I never had. Toss that in with the outsourceing of the low end jobs here and what I am left is a career that is worth SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than than what you have been able to recoupe.
Talk to me about selfish.
I voted against C12k, but I support the wishes of the majority of my pilot group, and I now support the contract as such.......but dont have the gall to call me selfish and try and to justify it by saying I have the luxury of time.
As to your musings about the pension and all... just... wow.
08-14-2012, 01:40 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You know I don't have that kind of data. I think percentages apply, but I cannot answer that either, so it is a futile exercise. Frankly, none of it applies to me anyway, because I have always been a saver, but there are lots of guys out there that seem to be working paycheck to paycheck (I find that astonishing). But really that isnt the point of this discussion. It is about guys wanting the senior guys to forego any semblance of pay increases to go beyond what was accomplished in the latest contract, and to recapture flying that ain't coming back at any price anyway. And yes, I think it is selfish of them to talk that way. Balance. A living document. Think about it.
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