Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Underboob King
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So its pretty clear by todays "APA" that the company is waiting until a joint bid before further adjusting DAL-N staffing. Should be alot of fireworks after the joint bid happens lol.
07-20-2009, 04:19 PM
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Carl
07-20-2009, 04:22 PM
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The talk of the joint bid has died down a little. It actually sounds like they may take this whole integration thing a little slower as it pertains to moving a/c and bases.
07-20-2009, 04:24 PM
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I agree they could figure out the PIRPS and -200 displacements for DEC but i think SOC will happen by then. They could have started drawing people out of the -200's in November if they wanted to. It looks like they want to wait until the joint bid so they can get that training bubble spread out across everything. We'll see
07-20-2009, 04:27 PM
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Good point. Remember though, that decision was made by DAL-S management, not DAL-N.
Haven't we been told by DAL N guys that DAL was actually taken over by NWA managers. I think I remember reading that. Regardless, it's a new management team, neither north or south. Besides, shutting down the 200s should not come as a surprise, it was a continuation of a systematic shutting down of the operation since before the merger. Prior to the merger freight block hours had been reduced about 60%.
Here is something to chew on...DAL-S argued that new hires at Delta were getting the 767ER and therefore deserved a better ratio compared to the new hires at NWA. The arbitrator agreed and a whole bunch of DAL-S new hires got better than DOH compared to the new hires at NWA. All because a few were getting the ER right out of class. The problem is DAL-S has right sized itself and those previous ER new hire pilots are now on the 88.
Haven't we been told by DAL N guys that DAL was actually taken over by NWA managers. I think I remember reading that. Regardless, it's a new management team, neither north or south. Besides, shutting down the 200s should not come as a surprise, it was a continuation of a systematic shutting down of the operation since before the merger. Prior to the merger freight block hours had been reduced about 60%.
Here is something to chew on...DAL-S argued that new hires at Delta were getting the 767ER and therefore deserved a better ratio compared to the new hires at NWA. The arbitrator agreed and a whole bunch of DAL-S new hires got better than DOH compared to the new hires at NWA. All because a few were getting the ER right out of class. The problem is DAL-S has right sized itself and those previous ER new hire pilots are now on the 88.
You have mischaracterized the DAL proposal. The DAL proposal wasn't based on what a pilot can hold, but rather the jobs brought to the merger. It was a category ratio proposal, it didn't matter whether a new hire was a wide bodied captain or not in the DALPA proposal, what mattered was how many wide bodied captain positions, narrow bodied captain positions etc. were brought to the merger, not who held those positions.
07-20-2009, 04:43 PM
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I know He does! 
Yes, that is what happened. At the time of the SLI, that represented an advantage to the DAL-N guys because the 270 retirements had not happened. If no DAL-N guys retired for...say...5 years, then that advantage would continue - because we were advantaged for retirements that had not yet happened. Now, before SOC, 270 DAL-N pilots will be gone.
Now, what happens with the next PRIP? Say the next PRIP happens next month? And say we have another 10 to 1 ratio of retirements of DAL-N guys? Answer, DAL-N pilots would be significantly disadvantaged. Why, because the arbitrator didn't give us credit for retirements that happened over 270.
I know the DAL-S position is "tough luck." The 10 to 1 ratio of retirements didn't happen until after the SLI, and thus you didn't deserve any ratio protection. As a matter of fact, you didn't deserve the 270 pilot ratio protection that you got. It's just tough luck for us. We knew the heavy retirements were coming, but we couldn't prove it in court. I'm OK with tough luck. I'm not OK with guys spiking the ball in my face with the "unprecedented arbitrator actions" comments.
Carl
Now, what happens with the next PRIP? Say the next PRIP happens next month? And say we have another 10 to 1 ratio of retirements of DAL-N guys? Answer, DAL-N pilots would be significantly disadvantaged. Why, because the arbitrator didn't give us credit for retirements that happened over 270.
I know the DAL-S position is "tough luck." The 10 to 1 ratio of retirements didn't happen until after the SLI, and thus you didn't deserve any ratio protection. As a matter of fact, you didn't deserve the 270 pilot ratio protection that you got. It's just tough luck for us. We knew the heavy retirements were coming, but we couldn't prove it in court. I'm OK with tough luck. I'm not OK with guys spiking the ball in my face with the "unprecedented arbitrator actions" comments.
Carl
07-20-2009, 04:46 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/bu.../16boeing.html
June 16, 2009
Boeing Executive Sees Airline Traffic Recovery in 2010
By NICOLA CLARK
LE BOURGET, France — The chief executive of Boeing’s commercial jet division on Monday sought to dispel some of the pessimism at this year’s Paris Air Show, arguing that the global economy was showing signs of a recovery and predicting a resumption of growth in airline traffic as early as 2010.
“At this point it appears to us that the economic conditions have bottomed,” said Scott E. Carson, chief executive of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. “If they have bottomed and a recovery comes next year, I think we have a shot at getting through.” Boeing has said it would not cut back on its assembly lines this year, though it expects to cut production rates for its long-range, wide-body 777 jet by 28 percent in mid-2010. It also shelved planned increases in 767 and 747 production.
Boeing’s European rival, Airbus, has reduced output of both its A320 single-aisle plane and its A380 superjumbo. It has abandoned plans to increase production of its wide-body A330.
Mr. Carson said Boeing’s moves on wide-body production were a specific reaction to the decline in air freight traffic that began in the fall of 2008. World air cargo traffic fell about 6 percent in 2008 and is expected to drop another 17 percent in 2009.
“There remains some risk to the freight side, but also an opportunity,” Mr. Carson said. “The next six months are going to be incredibly important to us as we watch to see if inventory rebuilding begins — which I believe it will.”
Mr. Carson added that he believed the current credit squeeze affecting airlines would be short-lived and that a “more normal trend” in lending would emerge by the second half of 2010.
Mr. Carson’s optimism was not universally shared by other participants at the Paris Air Show, however, where a thick gray mantle of clouds hung over the opening day’s proceedings.
“You’ve got to look at the postrecession environment,” said Sash Tusa, an independent aerospace industry consultant in London. “What will be the effect of a rising interest-rate environment?”
The global economic slowdown has hit the airline industry hard, with passenger traffic expected to fall by 8 percent this year. Just this month, the International Air Transport Association nearly doubled its forecast for 2009 industry losses to $9 billion from a prediction of $4.7 billion. The industry lost $10.4 billion in 2008.
“I think the winter is going to be horrible” for air travel, said Nick Cunningham, an aerospace and airline industry analyst with Evolution Securities in London. “Returning to growth again is still about another year out — in other words, you’re looking at another 12 months of traffic still declining.”
“This is not a recovery,” Mr. Cunningham said. “This is just the worst juncture for year-on-year decline.”
Airbus, for its part, remains decidedly more cautious. During the weekend, Louis Gallois, chief executive of the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company, known as EADS, the parent company of Airbus, said that it was still impossible to predict when an economic turnaround might come. “We have no capacity now to see what will be the depth of the crisis,” Mr. Gallois said.
Boeing, based in Chicago, last week lowered its 20-year market forecast for the first time in 10 years, albeit only slightly. The company said annual air traffic growth, which has averaged more than 5 percent in the last 30 years, would dip to 4.9 percent a year in the next two decades. Aircraft deliveries for the period would fall by just 400 planes to 29,000, Boeing predicted.
Randy J. Tinseth, vice president for marketing of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, acknowledged that the forecast was based on assumptions made this year about air traffic trends, which at the time assumed only a 5 percent decline in passenger traffic. Boeing plans to publish a revised forecast after the summer, Mr. Tinseth said.
Mr. Carson said he did not expect the credit crisis to have a significant impact on the company’s near-term deliveries. Boeing has a total order book valued at around $265 billion, currently equivalent to around seven years of production.
“We believe we have the most coveted backlog in this industry — perhaps in the history of this industry,” Mr. Carson said.
Included in that backlog are about 860 jets of the company’s newest flagship model, the 787 Dreamliner, which is due to make its first flight this month. The first 787 delivery, to All Nippon Airways of Japan, is scheduled for the first quarter of 2010. Mr. Carson said he did not foresee any financing trouble for the airlines lined up to buy the first of these jets.
The 787 backlog extends into 2020, he added, “so that’s a very long time with lots of opportunity for economic recovery.”
Separately, Bob Smith, chief innovation officer at the avionics company Honeywell, said that Asia — which has had some of the world’s fastest expansion in air traffic in recent years — was holding up relatively well.
China and India were still experiencing healthy growth, he added, saying, “For the aviation world, that’s important.”
June 16, 2009
Boeing Executive Sees Airline Traffic Recovery in 2010
By NICOLA CLARK
LE BOURGET, France — The chief executive of Boeing’s commercial jet division on Monday sought to dispel some of the pessimism at this year’s Paris Air Show, arguing that the global economy was showing signs of a recovery and predicting a resumption of growth in airline traffic as early as 2010.
“At this point it appears to us that the economic conditions have bottomed,” said Scott E. Carson, chief executive of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. “If they have bottomed and a recovery comes next year, I think we have a shot at getting through.” Boeing has said it would not cut back on its assembly lines this year, though it expects to cut production rates for its long-range, wide-body 777 jet by 28 percent in mid-2010. It also shelved planned increases in 767 and 747 production.
Boeing’s European rival, Airbus, has reduced output of both its A320 single-aisle plane and its A380 superjumbo. It has abandoned plans to increase production of its wide-body A330.
Mr. Carson said Boeing’s moves on wide-body production were a specific reaction to the decline in air freight traffic that began in the fall of 2008. World air cargo traffic fell about 6 percent in 2008 and is expected to drop another 17 percent in 2009.
“There remains some risk to the freight side, but also an opportunity,” Mr. Carson said. “The next six months are going to be incredibly important to us as we watch to see if inventory rebuilding begins — which I believe it will.”
Mr. Carson added that he believed the current credit squeeze affecting airlines would be short-lived and that a “more normal trend” in lending would emerge by the second half of 2010.
Mr. Carson’s optimism was not universally shared by other participants at the Paris Air Show, however, where a thick gray mantle of clouds hung over the opening day’s proceedings.
“You’ve got to look at the postrecession environment,” said Sash Tusa, an independent aerospace industry consultant in London. “What will be the effect of a rising interest-rate environment?”
The global economic slowdown has hit the airline industry hard, with passenger traffic expected to fall by 8 percent this year. Just this month, the International Air Transport Association nearly doubled its forecast for 2009 industry losses to $9 billion from a prediction of $4.7 billion. The industry lost $10.4 billion in 2008.
“I think the winter is going to be horrible” for air travel, said Nick Cunningham, an aerospace and airline industry analyst with Evolution Securities in London. “Returning to growth again is still about another year out — in other words, you’re looking at another 12 months of traffic still declining.”
“This is not a recovery,” Mr. Cunningham said. “This is just the worst juncture for year-on-year decline.”
Airbus, for its part, remains decidedly more cautious. During the weekend, Louis Gallois, chief executive of the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company, known as EADS, the parent company of Airbus, said that it was still impossible to predict when an economic turnaround might come. “We have no capacity now to see what will be the depth of the crisis,” Mr. Gallois said.
Boeing, based in Chicago, last week lowered its 20-year market forecast for the first time in 10 years, albeit only slightly. The company said annual air traffic growth, which has averaged more than 5 percent in the last 30 years, would dip to 4.9 percent a year in the next two decades. Aircraft deliveries for the period would fall by just 400 planes to 29,000, Boeing predicted.
Randy J. Tinseth, vice president for marketing of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, acknowledged that the forecast was based on assumptions made this year about air traffic trends, which at the time assumed only a 5 percent decline in passenger traffic. Boeing plans to publish a revised forecast after the summer, Mr. Tinseth said.
Mr. Carson said he did not expect the credit crisis to have a significant impact on the company’s near-term deliveries. Boeing has a total order book valued at around $265 billion, currently equivalent to around seven years of production.
“We believe we have the most coveted backlog in this industry — perhaps in the history of this industry,” Mr. Carson said.
Included in that backlog are about 860 jets of the company’s newest flagship model, the 787 Dreamliner, which is due to make its first flight this month. The first 787 delivery, to All Nippon Airways of Japan, is scheduled for the first quarter of 2010. Mr. Carson said he did not foresee any financing trouble for the airlines lined up to buy the first of these jets.
The 787 backlog extends into 2020, he added, “so that’s a very long time with lots of opportunity for economic recovery.”
Separately, Bob Smith, chief innovation officer at the avionics company Honeywell, said that Asia — which has had some of the world’s fastest expansion in air traffic in recent years — was holding up relatively well.
China and India were still experiencing healthy growth, he added, saying, “For the aviation world, that’s important.”
07-20-2009, 04:50 PM
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07-20-2009, 05:01 PM
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Yep, DAL is still seeing 2010 as a year of recovery. I hope they are correct.
07-20-2009, 05:02 PM
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My dad can beat up your dad ...
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