Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-04-2012, 06:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
08-04-2012, 06:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Smoking Joe: "And that SERP thing we pulled off? It still makes me so [deleted] [deleted]..."
Michelle [interrupting]: "I know. Me too."
Smoking Joe: "I noticed"
Michelle: "[deleted] off, Joe!"
[2 deep, contended sighs]
Michelle: "You think those girls are voleyball players?"
Michelle [interrupting]: "I know. Me too."
Smoking Joe: "I noticed"
Michelle: "[deleted] off, Joe!"
[2 deep, contended sighs]
Michelle: "You think those girls are voleyball players?"
08-04-2012, 06:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
"...Well, look again. Do you see any water on this release? Do you see a single mother-[bleeping] drop of deicing fluid on this release? Now, clean that [bleep] up you got all over my cockpit, and get your towels and your tampons off my window, and I'm going to show you it is possible to have a tidy Maddog cockpit, and to get the crap to flow back out the window!"
Last edited by Sink r8; 08-04-2012 at 07:03 AM.
08-04-2012, 06:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
You love that metric. You like to measure from Delta's position as a stand alone airline to prove your point. Your measurement is as relevant as a housewife telling her children to "eat all of your dinner because children are starving in Africa."
We are Northwest airlines in all but name. The people running the show are doing the job exactly as they did at Northwest and we are continuing along Northwest's capacity trend.
Move your metric (and your projections) to the end of 2009 and measure again.
If you are comfortable stagnating where you sit, or got a left seat before the music stopped, good for you.
( FWIW ... my request for leave was refused three times ... need longer than 10 months to get a contract gig overseas ... this is just my usual post merger fall displacement pattern ... displacement bid ... leave request ... displacements ameliorated by holding more pilots at higher levels than projected ... stay for another year ... get older & stagnate )
We are Northwest airlines in all but name. The people running the show are doing the job exactly as they did at Northwest and we are continuing along Northwest's capacity trend.
Move your metric (and your projections) to the end of 2009 and measure again.
If you are comfortable stagnating where you sit, or got a left seat before the music stopped, good for you.
( FWIW ... my request for leave was refused three times ... need longer than 10 months to get a contract gig overseas ... this is just my usual post merger fall displacement pattern ... displacement bid ... leave request ... displacements ameliorated by holding more pilots at higher levels than projected ... stay for another year ... get older & stagnate )
08-04-2012, 07:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
[Fast Forward]
"[Bleeping] 2007 mother-[bleep]in GenX newhire! Do I have to teach you everything?" Now is your window clean? Hey, hey, hey! Quit your mother-[bleeping] crying, and tell me: is your mother-[bleeping] window clean, or isn't it!?"
08-04-2012, 07:01 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
Most recent information I've heard:
- Classes going to 50 pilots a month
- Around 100 hired so far
- Next few classes will have a good shot at Atlanta basing if that is what you want
- Mid July Class will be the first to get 757 / 767 for initial training since the program is just getting set up to accept new hires
For the rest of you, like 1234; the logic makes sense on a short term basis. Of course if the only sandwich shop in the terminal doubles its prices it will make a profit. The long term picture is that the City will lease three other sandwich shops space in the terminal and they will enter the market for Bologna on Wheat ... eventually driving down profits for "sandwich capacity reductions is our leverage." Worse, since the new entrants have no legacy costs their will have a cost advantage on the "capacity reductions are our leverage" Bologna vendor.
As stated clearly by Bastian and Anderson, our continued shrinkage is driving up unit costs. This fact makes us less competitive long term.
Sailing always gets angry when someone contrasts the growth at other airlines with what appears to be a slow liquidation of what Delta Air Lines was. It is imagined "as long as Sailing got his," the rest of us should literally be happy to clean his garbage from the flight deck until we retire two years after he does.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 08-04-2012 at 07:34 AM.
08-04-2012, 07:27 AM
Everyday is a weekend!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seasonal Help
Posts: 317
So you are required to check your schedule at the end of your rest? That would make that one minute NOT rest. The 5 hours until your assignment would be included in your duty time. That's pretty basic. They can't have it both ways. They don't get a rolling max duty day to begin whenever they want it to begin, but until it begins its considered rest, even though you HAVE to check your schedule during that "rest". That's completely unreasonable and pushing the limits of the regs. The time I pushed it CS and ALPA agreed with me. Be very careful going more than 16 hours beyond 10AM. Hopefully your trip finishes earlier than that anyway, but if not I'd check hard into it.
08-04-2012, 08:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,612
Pre-merger was a different kettle of fish ...Sailing, your airline bought my airline, took it's flying (code), bankrupted it, then spun it off to a non union carrier who immediately engaged in illegal self help by transferring the aircraft we now flew for Delta to it's non union side of the operation. My hiring achieved what ALPA would have sought via it's Merger and Fragmentation Policy back in the day that a Delta MEC member handed me my first copy of Flying the Line nearly fifteen years ago (while working on the Bid Restricted SO SLOA, to get jobs for Delta pilots, btw)
For the rest of you, like 1234; the logic makes sense on a short term basis. Of course if the only sandwich shop in the terminal doubles its prices it will make a profit. The long term picture is that the City will lease three other sandwich shops space in the terminal and they will enter the market for Bologna on Wheat ... eventually driving down profits for "sandwich capacity reductions is our leverage." Worse, since the new entrants have no legacy costs their will have a cost advantage on the "capacity reductions are our leverage" Bologna vendor.
As stated clearly by Bastian and Anderson, our continued shrinkage is driving up unit costs. This fact makes us less competitive long term.
Sailing always gets angry when someone contrasts the growth at other airlines with what appears to be a slow liquidation of what Delta Air Lines was. It is imagined "as long as Sailing got his," the rest of us should literally be happy to clean his garbage from the flight deck until we retire two years after he does.
For the rest of you, like 1234; the logic makes sense on a short term basis. Of course if the only sandwich shop in the terminal doubles its prices it will make a profit. The long term picture is that the City will lease three other sandwich shops space in the terminal and they will enter the market for Bologna on Wheat ... eventually driving down profits for "sandwich capacity reductions is our leverage." Worse, since the new entrants have no legacy costs their will have a cost advantage on the "capacity reductions are our leverage" Bologna vendor.
As stated clearly by Bastian and Anderson, our continued shrinkage is driving up unit costs. This fact makes us less competitive long term.
Sailing always gets angry when someone contrasts the growth at other airlines with what appears to be a slow liquidation of what Delta Air Lines was. It is imagined "as long as Sailing got his," the rest of us should literally be happy to clean his garbage from the flight deck until we retire two years after he does.
Picture yourself running a company. You hire a employee and pay him a salary. Right after you hire him he gets a big bull horn and shots out to everyone who will listen what a horrible company you run yet still comes to work every day. How would you handle that employee?
08-04-2012, 08:15 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
Interesting comments from a Delta guy (my apologies if this has been posted on another thread already...think it may be floating around on union boards too)... Re: DL Connex...ouch! Wondering how he knows it's the low-timers that are breaking all the airplanes 
"Just got a copy of this 4.5 hr conversation with one of Delta's Networking (route structure) cronies:
Had one of Bob Cortelyou's (Delta Network VP)guys on my jumpseat the other day. A very interesting 4.5 hour conversation. This guy was extremely sharp. Worked for Bob at CAL, then went to Boeing, then came here.
We talked about every conceivable thing regarding Delta, the NWA merger, and state of the airline industry. Too much to mention here but I'll try to highlight a few points. [Feel free to ask questions before I forget.]
DL/NW. Both mgmts want this. NW senior mgmt gets golden parachutes. We keep the NW mgmt we want, mainly the guys who are good at fending off competition and yield management....says they are best in industry.
DL/NW will be extremely powerful due to most complete network...Pacific, Tokyo rights, Europe, Latin America, and most of US. Only hole is N/S West coast traffic. [Alaska Air?] Will dominate (very profitable) SEA and NYC, as well as other markets.
The main reason for the merger mania is that it will give the industry pricing power. [like it did for the oil companies, banks, telecom, etc...] And yes, it will also make the wall street guys happy.
Mgmt really wishes pilots can come to seniority agreement. Deal will not happen without pilot consent. Asked why not? Said we do not want a USAir situation here, it will more than offset the benefits of a merger. Mgmt does not want us to have fences either.
Captain and I explained in great detail our concerns of the SLI, especially as to why it won't work as proposed by NW pilots. We also explained in great detail our other concerns. Believe me, this guy got a [polite] ear full.
And for you fellow commuters... I told him most of the NW pilots commute and that about half the DL pilots do. I pointed out that many NW crew members live down south, and for example, 600 NW crew members live in the DFW area alone. I told him few of us can afford to live in NYC or LAX. In the event of a merger whereby there will be displacements, re-alignments, record high loads, and so forth, it will be even more of a "flustercluck" getting to work. I asked about the feasability of positive space passes for commuters. He admitted that the company knows there are going to be logistical problems in this regard and would have to do something to ensure the crews got to work, FWIW. He then asked me if I personally would be willing to commute to a place like DTW if I had positive space. I told him "yes" as long as I was holding an equivalent seat position.
He said DL has a good stand-alone plan if NW falls through.
He couldn't divulge in great detail company's plans, but....and this is my take.....is that we are not interested in UAL as a whole. UAL in deep doo doo. Their problem is that in addition to not shedding enough debt in their BK, they are a rudderless ship. Tilton and Co are just there to suck money out of UAL for themselves. Could face death by a 1000 cuts. If they spin off the PAC operation, we may take this.
DL has been and is going to bitterly fight off competition. [ie. Drove Airtran out of SEA-ATL, drove JBlue out of ATL-Los Angeles]
CAL/UAL will happen if we merge with NW. Not sure how CAL can cope with all of UAL's problems & debt, especially all the PO'd UAL labor groups. CAL also has a bit of a debt problem itself.
Not sure what AA will do with merger mania. AA has a big problem in that they have lots of debt. [Maybe they should have gone ch11 a few years ago.]
Jblu and Luftansa: Why? JBlu not inherently profitable. Has big problems coming up. Luftansa figures it can give them money and ultimately get some of their JFK slots........which it can then trade, bargain, or sell.
Airtran. Similar story to JBLU. Wonders where they are going to put their new planes? No more room for them in ATL. NW cockblocked them in MKE with the Midwest purchase, [I guess those guys are good.]
As for SWA....who now has one of the highest non-fuel cost structure in the industry. Again, similar story. Not too worried about SWA as a major competitor. They have big challenges coming up as well.
USAir? Ha! Our mgmt knows very well about how the labor unrest is costing them big money. Again, they do not want any of that type of crap here.
He feels that DL and CAL are the strongest airlines in USA. And that we have more upside potential.
DL/CAL won't work, too much overlap, not enough Pacific, and somebody will have to give up a NYC hub.
2010 and beyond. We have the ability to get all the Boeing 777s and 737s we need for business plan.
Many more markets in Europe we want to go to. Asia too. Wants Beijing and feels like we have a real good shot at it. Looking at other Africa markets. Wants more pacific, we need more 777s. 737-700's will open up more Latin America markets. The 737-700 will replace some markets being served by the 757, like Quito or Reno....thus freeing up the 757 to go somewhere with better yield. He seemed to really love the 737-700, lots you can do with it.
Couldn't pin him down on just what the heck we are going to do with our crappy JFK facility. There is no immediate easy solution. Mgmt is well aware of this problem and it's effects on our ability to market in NYC. It will not kill us in NYC, but it is a challenge. They are working on it and it appears to still be a high prioirty.
Speaking of marketing. We now actually do this! Unlike for the past 3 decades! I believe we are still building up our sales teams.
LAX profitable but there is lots of competition driving down yields. MEM profitable for NW. CVG...not so much for us.
Sell Comair? They are worthless, [tell me something I don't know!] Too many 50 seaters. [Maybe we should put the bumper sticker on them that says: "Don't laugh, it's paid for."]
If we merge with NW, we have plenty of places for the DC-9s to fly to and will hang on to more of them than NW was planning on.
DL Connection:
Mgmt is well aware of their lousy service. They are constantly beating up on those companies. He pointed out that this was the reason they replaced the ASA ground personnel in ATL with DL people. I asked if he was aware that DL CNX was hiring low time pilots, and that low time pilots have a habit of breaking airplanes driving up maintenance costs, and occasionally crashing them killing our passengers, and that if those above factors are figured into their balance sheets? He would touch that one with 10 foot pole!....so maybe not....but hopefully mgmt will figure it out. I suggested that since they replaced the ASA folks, maybe DL pilots should fly those jets so as not to have the above problems. I then asked at what point did he figure broken airplanes and dead PAX would overshadow the added expense of putting DL pilots there? Wouldn't touch that one either!
And finally....
Mgmt and marketing in particular, are well aware that we have more than a few in-flight personnel who are, how do I say this politely?......um, "motivationally challenged," among other things. Would love to do something about this but are concerned about getting AFA on the property. Along those lines, they believe that since NW FA's are the minority to DL FAs, they can get AFA de-certified among them. A new election would have to be held for AFA to get on the property. He did say he has personally given presentations to numerous new-hire FA classes and that he is, and we will be, "impressed" with who we have hired."
"Just got a copy of this 4.5 hr conversation with one of Delta's Networking (route structure) cronies:
Had one of Bob Cortelyou's (Delta Network VP)guys on my jumpseat the other day. A very interesting 4.5 hour conversation. This guy was extremely sharp. Worked for Bob at CAL, then went to Boeing, then came here.
We talked about every conceivable thing regarding Delta, the NWA merger, and state of the airline industry. Too much to mention here but I'll try to highlight a few points. [Feel free to ask questions before I forget.]
DL/NW. Both mgmts want this. NW senior mgmt gets golden parachutes. We keep the NW mgmt we want, mainly the guys who are good at fending off competition and yield management....says they are best in industry.
DL/NW will be extremely powerful due to most complete network...Pacific, Tokyo rights, Europe, Latin America, and most of US. Only hole is N/S West coast traffic. [Alaska Air?] Will dominate (very profitable) SEA and NYC, as well as other markets.
The main reason for the merger mania is that it will give the industry pricing power. [like it did for the oil companies, banks, telecom, etc...] And yes, it will also make the wall street guys happy.
Mgmt really wishes pilots can come to seniority agreement. Deal will not happen without pilot consent. Asked why not? Said we do not want a USAir situation here, it will more than offset the benefits of a merger. Mgmt does not want us to have fences either.
Captain and I explained in great detail our concerns of the SLI, especially as to why it won't work as proposed by NW pilots. We also explained in great detail our other concerns. Believe me, this guy got a [polite] ear full.
And for you fellow commuters... I told him most of the NW pilots commute and that about half the DL pilots do. I pointed out that many NW crew members live down south, and for example, 600 NW crew members live in the DFW area alone. I told him few of us can afford to live in NYC or LAX. In the event of a merger whereby there will be displacements, re-alignments, record high loads, and so forth, it will be even more of a "flustercluck" getting to work. I asked about the feasability of positive space passes for commuters. He admitted that the company knows there are going to be logistical problems in this regard and would have to do something to ensure the crews got to work, FWIW. He then asked me if I personally would be willing to commute to a place like DTW if I had positive space. I told him "yes" as long as I was holding an equivalent seat position.
He said DL has a good stand-alone plan if NW falls through.
He couldn't divulge in great detail company's plans, but....and this is my take.....is that we are not interested in UAL as a whole. UAL in deep doo doo. Their problem is that in addition to not shedding enough debt in their BK, they are a rudderless ship. Tilton and Co are just there to suck money out of UAL for themselves. Could face death by a 1000 cuts. If they spin off the PAC operation, we may take this.
DL has been and is going to bitterly fight off competition. [ie. Drove Airtran out of SEA-ATL, drove JBlue out of ATL-Los Angeles]
CAL/UAL will happen if we merge with NW. Not sure how CAL can cope with all of UAL's problems & debt, especially all the PO'd UAL labor groups. CAL also has a bit of a debt problem itself.
Not sure what AA will do with merger mania. AA has a big problem in that they have lots of debt. [Maybe they should have gone ch11 a few years ago.]
Jblu and Luftansa: Why? JBlu not inherently profitable. Has big problems coming up. Luftansa figures it can give them money and ultimately get some of their JFK slots........which it can then trade, bargain, or sell.
Airtran. Similar story to JBLU. Wonders where they are going to put their new planes? No more room for them in ATL. NW cockblocked them in MKE with the Midwest purchase, [I guess those guys are good.]
As for SWA....who now has one of the highest non-fuel cost structure in the industry. Again, similar story. Not too worried about SWA as a major competitor. They have big challenges coming up as well.
USAir? Ha! Our mgmt knows very well about how the labor unrest is costing them big money. Again, they do not want any of that type of crap here.
He feels that DL and CAL are the strongest airlines in USA. And that we have more upside potential.
DL/CAL won't work, too much overlap, not enough Pacific, and somebody will have to give up a NYC hub.
2010 and beyond. We have the ability to get all the Boeing 777s and 737s we need for business plan.
Many more markets in Europe we want to go to. Asia too. Wants Beijing and feels like we have a real good shot at it. Looking at other Africa markets. Wants more pacific, we need more 777s. 737-700's will open up more Latin America markets. The 737-700 will replace some markets being served by the 757, like Quito or Reno....thus freeing up the 757 to go somewhere with better yield. He seemed to really love the 737-700, lots you can do with it.
Couldn't pin him down on just what the heck we are going to do with our crappy JFK facility. There is no immediate easy solution. Mgmt is well aware of this problem and it's effects on our ability to market in NYC. It will not kill us in NYC, but it is a challenge. They are working on it and it appears to still be a high prioirty.
Speaking of marketing. We now actually do this! Unlike for the past 3 decades! I believe we are still building up our sales teams.
LAX profitable but there is lots of competition driving down yields. MEM profitable for NW. CVG...not so much for us.
Sell Comair? They are worthless, [tell me something I don't know!] Too many 50 seaters. [Maybe we should put the bumper sticker on them that says: "Don't laugh, it's paid for."]
If we merge with NW, we have plenty of places for the DC-9s to fly to and will hang on to more of them than NW was planning on.
DL Connection:
Mgmt is well aware of their lousy service. They are constantly beating up on those companies. He pointed out that this was the reason they replaced the ASA ground personnel in ATL with DL people. I asked if he was aware that DL CNX was hiring low time pilots, and that low time pilots have a habit of breaking airplanes driving up maintenance costs, and occasionally crashing them killing our passengers, and that if those above factors are figured into their balance sheets? He would touch that one with 10 foot pole!....so maybe not....but hopefully mgmt will figure it out. I suggested that since they replaced the ASA folks, maybe DL pilots should fly those jets so as not to have the above problems. I then asked at what point did he figure broken airplanes and dead PAX would overshadow the added expense of putting DL pilots there? Wouldn't touch that one either!
And finally....
Mgmt and marketing in particular, are well aware that we have more than a few in-flight personnel who are, how do I say this politely?......um, "motivationally challenged," among other things. Would love to do something about this but are concerned about getting AFA on the property. Along those lines, they believe that since NW FA's are the minority to DL FAs, they can get AFA de-certified among them. A new election would have to be held for AFA to get on the property. He did say he has personally given presentations to numerous new-hire FA classes and that he is, and we will be, "impressed" with who we have hired."
08-04-2012, 08:27 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
Picture yourself running a company. You hire a employee and pay him a salary. Right after you hire him he gets a big bull horn and shots out to everyone who will listen what a horrible company you run yet still comes to work every day. How would you handle that employee?
Of course your example is predicated on a complete lie, so it really does not mean any more than my goading you to "take your best shot." I was complimentary of the management team who hired me. My concern is for the long term viability and success of Delta Air Lines.
You are an interesting paradox. An alleged union insider who suggests an appropriate response is to fire other pilots.
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