Sink r8

What happens when the company grows? You fail to capture the additional revenue. Airplanes have gotten bigger, on average, for 100 years. Why not participate in the company's ability to generate more revenue by carrying more per plane? Why would you want to incentivize fewer pilots, by having a flat rate per hour?

shiznit

Why I don't favor a LBP system, I would determine the "rate" to be a composite calculation of the fleet's individual pay rate averaged out:

100 M88's = $200.00/hr 100/250 = 40% of 200 = $80
50 7ER's = $230.00/hr 50/250 = 20% of 230 = $46
50 330's = $250.00/hr 50/250 = 20% of 250 = $50
50 777's = $285.00/hr 50/250 = 20% of 285 = $57

The "composite" 12 yr CA rate would be: $232.00

If the fleet composition changes, then a floor of 0% increase could occur, and if the fleet average increases then the number goes up. An "inflationary increase" would also occur, but would be adjusted up or down by the appropriate fleet composite increase or decrease percentage.

If the Company were to add 100 E-170's and the "rate" that the company and the union negotiate is 100/hr:

100 E70's = $100/hr. 100/350 = 28.5% = $28.5
100 M88's = $200/hr. 100/350 = 28.5% = $57
50 7ER's = $230/hr 50/350 = 14.3% = $32.89
50 330's = $250/hr 50/350 = 14.3% = $35.75
50 777's = $285/hr 50/350 = 14.3% = $40.76

The new composite rate would be $194.90. But with a floor of 0% increase, the rate would remain at $232. (-16% change)
This would be different if the hypothetical company added more WB's instead of SSNB's!
This would happen until the yearly increases caught up and surpassed the "floor" or if Section 6(Ch. 11) resulted in a higher(or lower!) numbers to use in composite calculations.

That is a way to capture revenue from larger/faster/better aircraft and still have a composite pay scale.

I don't want one because the ONLY metric to bid would be QOL, as pay would be equal across the board, making a LOT harder to increase your QOL in the first half of your career. With pay by frame, people can chase pay rates and leave lower paying by better QOL to a more junior pilot.

Essentially pilots can "buy" QOL under the present system, under LBP you lose the option to choose between money or QOL, and get stuck with lesser QOL against your will for a longer portion of your career.


(Hiding in the bunker awaiting the incoming from T!

Timbo

While some airplanes have gotten bigger, (A380, 747-8) Delta's fleet has gotten smaller, in the wide body world. At one time Delta had 55 L10-11's, AND 15 MD 11's. That's 70 wide bodies right there, DL alone, now add in what NW had 10 years ago in their 747 fleet, freighters and -400's.

Now, post merger, we only have 18 777's and 16 747's and 21 676-400's and about 30(?) A330's. Add all those up and you get roughly 85 wide bodies, at a combined DAL/NW. That's quite a bit less wide body Capt's and F/O's than 10 years ago.

AND NO NEW WIDEBODY ORDERS on tap...but hey, you'll look sweet in that 717 or 737-900, after you get displaced off the 767/757, right?

I think we should go with a longevity based system but have an annual pay raise, forever, not just a 12 year scale. A 30 year pilot would be making more than a 20 year pilot, who would be making more than a 12 year pilot. Why do we stop at 12years?

Now...what should we base our rates on?? What is the argument at the negotiating table?

The argument for our present system is "Productivity". ie. weight/speed/seats formulas from 70 years ago. Most people understand the concept that an airplane with 300 seats should pay more than one with 200, which should pay more than one with 100 seats.

So, when we go in to negotiate new rates for a Longevity Based Pay system, on what would we base our rates?

SailorJerry

Only problem with continuous raises is that even at 3-3.5% over 40 years of a career compound interest takes over. Then you end up like the US Airways rampers in 2004 taking like an 80% pay cut when their wages were "adjusted" in bankruptcy when the company leadership thinks you need an attitude adjustment.

Purple Drank

Delta again proves that if you're only willing to pay the bare minimum--whether rampers, MX, vendors, etc--that's exactly what you'll get.


Passenger on Delta flight to Twin Cities hurt by needle in sandwich - TwinCities.com

buzzpat

What's your deal? Too much PurpleDrank? How would you know what Delta does/pays? Your grandmother is calling....she wants her basement back.

Jesse

Talk about a stretch. Dude, give me a break. You should remember the saying, "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt."

groundstop

Wouldn't this be the caterers paying their employes the bare minimum?

SailorJerry

There are 4 needles on every Pinnacle flight too. You heard it here first.

tsquare

^^^^^^ There ya go! Somebody gets it.