Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-28-2012, 10:41 AM
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06-28-2012, 10:43 AM
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06-28-2012, 10:45 AM
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06-28-2012, 10:48 AM
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Given the crapstorm at AA and the economy staying in the doldrums (read anything about Europe lately?) I think that you and most no voters will actually secretly be glad when this thing passes (I predict 62-38). This TA is not perfect by a long stretch, but I think it is the "least bad" answer to vote in favor of ratification.
Think of it this way. Ten years ago you drove a BMW (C2K, even though lots of pilots THEN were claiming "woe is me" when the C2K TA was ratified). Then it was taken away and you were given an 83 Chevette (post-BK agreements). Then you managed to get back to driving a 97 Corolla that is fairly serviceable, but getting older (our current contract). The whole time you keep muttering to yourself (I just KNOW I'm getting a brand new 2013 BMW, I just KNOW it!).
Then, someone else (our NC) negotiated on your behalf for a new car and you got...a used 2006 Passat, in fine shape. It is a good car and a good deal, but it is not a 2013 BMW. And guess what? There IS NO new BMW out there. Do you "deserve" it? Yes you do! But that doesn't change the fact that there is none to be had, and saying "no" from now until doomsday ain't gonna change that fact. So do you take the 2006 Passat and be modestly happy with it, hoping to continue to improve your and the company's bottom line so that you can get a 2015 BMW in 3 years, or do you say "NOOOOOO" and keep driving the Corolla? I prefer the Passat...the known but imperfect, real value, right now, today, versus the fantasy of holding out and getting a fictitious BMW that did indeed exist 10 years ago and may exist in the 2-3 years from now future but does not and will not exist in the immediate future.
Your views may vary!
Think of it this way. Ten years ago you drove a BMW (C2K, even though lots of pilots THEN were claiming "woe is me" when the C2K TA was ratified). Then it was taken away and you were given an 83 Chevette (post-BK agreements). Then you managed to get back to driving a 97 Corolla that is fairly serviceable, but getting older (our current contract). The whole time you keep muttering to yourself (I just KNOW I'm getting a brand new 2013 BMW, I just KNOW it!).
Then, someone else (our NC) negotiated on your behalf for a new car and you got...a used 2006 Passat, in fine shape. It is a good car and a good deal, but it is not a 2013 BMW. And guess what? There IS NO new BMW out there. Do you "deserve" it? Yes you do! But that doesn't change the fact that there is none to be had, and saying "no" from now until doomsday ain't gonna change that fact. So do you take the 2006 Passat and be modestly happy with it, hoping to continue to improve your and the company's bottom line so that you can get a 2015 BMW in 3 years, or do you say "NOOOOOO" and keep driving the Corolla? I prefer the Passat...the known but imperfect, real value, right now, today, versus the fantasy of holding out and getting a fictitious BMW that did indeed exist 10 years ago and may exist in the 2-3 years from now future but does not and will not exist in the immediate future.
Your views may vary!
06-28-2012, 10:50 AM
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06-28-2012, 11:37 AM
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AA Bankrupt TA Reserve Pay 85 hrs. No 7 SC
Still voting yes?
Still voting yes?
06-28-2012, 11:42 AM
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Its a CH11 TA, and they got raises in it. What was LOA 51 again? Where is DAL as a business entity now? Should we really expect to see a TA that takes AMR holding out on the CH11 process so long as a contender? If anything the results show that there is more to get if a CH11 airline can offer raises, limit ALV's to what they are limiting them to, max reserve of 85 hrs, RJ's where they are at et al.
It ain't a perfect agreement that they got, but its a far cry from what a bankrupt carrier normally gets. My feeling is this is a creditors agreement that the APA pilots know they will not live under for long. It will be for a little bit before a merger.
It ain't a perfect agreement that they got, but its a far cry from what a bankrupt carrier normally gets. My feeling is this is a creditors agreement that the APA pilots know they will not live under for long. It will be for a little bit before a merger.
06-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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Its a CH11 TA, and they got raises in it. What was LOA 51 again? Where is DAL as a business entity now? Should we really expect to see a TA that takes AMR holding out on the CH11 process so long as a contender? If anything the results show that there is more to get if a CH11 airline can offer raises, limit ALV's to what they are limiting them to, max reserve of 85 hrs, RJ's where they are at et al.
It ain't a perfect agreement that they got, but its a far cry from what a bankrupt carrier normally gets. My feeling is this is a creditors agreement that the APA pilots know they will not live under for long. It will be for a little bit before a merger.
It ain't a perfect agreement that they got, but its a far cry from what a bankrupt carrier normally gets. My feeling is this is a creditors agreement that the APA pilots know they will not live under for long. It will be for a little bit before a merger.
I voted NO and hope this TA gets turned down.
06-28-2012, 11:55 AM
Mother’s finest
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Posts: 295
Umm... unless they have changed this, there are no 7 short calls because they are ALWAYS on short call (promptly available) on their reserve days. Southwest is like this as well, a fact that the bemoaners of how miserable our reserve system is/will be conveniently omit when they point out that SWA reserves are "only" on call 15 days. I will gladly take the as low as 16 up to 18 days on call with only 6 or 7 short calls dependent on the ALV.
Also, would you rather have 85 hours pay at their ridiculous rates or 75.5 (average) at our rates? The grass is not always greener.
Also, would you rather have 85 hours pay at their ridiculous rates or 75.5 (average) at our rates? The grass is not always greener.
06-28-2012, 11:56 AM
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This sounds bogus to me. What is their regular line average 105 hours? So the reserve guys are going to get paid 1020 hours per year? 20 hours more than the domestic FAA limit. I would like to see that in writting. If this is true, which I am skeptical of, why would anyone even bid a regular line. If this is true, I may have to rethink my yes vote.
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