Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-30-2012, 08:50 AM
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How do these two quotes square with each other?
"Our very own CAPS community gives the company a dreaded one-star rating (out of five), with 41.4% of members expecting it to underperform. I am one of the 385 members currently sporting an underperform CAPScall on Delta and find myself underwater to the tune of nine points. But, have no fear, history is on my side."
"Fool contributor Sean Williams has no material interest in any companies mentioned in this article. "
Not much oversight going on over at the motley fool, apparently.
05-30-2012, 08:55 AM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Hey Carl,
First, thanks for the reply. I do have a question though. You said that your retirement went from 60% FAE to 50% FAE however you reduced your monthly retirement by 50%. In reality, shouldn't it be something more like this:
Assume your FAE is $33,000/mo
Your FAE at 60% would be $19,800/mo
Since it was reduced to 50% FAE shouldn't your pension pay out $16,500/mo?
It was my understanding that we froze the pension at the amount it was at at the time of freezing and therefore, whatever you had earned is what you were to get. I don't remember reading that we not only froze the pension but also cut the value of it by 50%. Is that true?
Thanks,
First, thanks for the reply. I do have a question though. You said that your retirement went from 60% FAE to 50% FAE however you reduced your monthly retirement by 50%. In reality, shouldn't it be something more like this:
Assume your FAE is $33,000/mo
Your FAE at 60% would be $19,800/mo
Since it was reduced to 50% FAE shouldn't your pension pay out $16,500/mo?
It was my understanding that we froze the pension at the amount it was at at the time of freezing and therefore, whatever you had earned is what you were to get. I don't remember reading that we not only froze the pension but also cut the value of it by 50%. Is that true?
Thanks,
Carl
05-30-2012, 09:03 AM
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Posts: 273
My point is that when they got out of bankruptcy it took until 2010 to get their next contract, 3 years after the amenable date and 7 years after the bankruptcy and only with the help of the NMB who didn't mediate until 15 months after they requested the process. The key points are that this is the traditional path with the NMB regardless of sending back a TA in bankruptcy in an attempt to save the pensions.
Code:
September 16, 2008 - With negotiations on a new contract stalled after well over 18 months of bargaining, Hawaiian Airlines pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl., have filed to seek mediation with the National Mediation Board (NMB). At the same time, the pilot group announced it would reactivate its Strategic Preparedness Committee and seek support from ALPA’s National Strategic Preparedness and Strike Committee. December 23, 2009 - After nearly three years in contract negotiations, pilots at Hawaiian Airlines are welcoming the opportunity to vote on a tentative agreement that, if ratified by members, will result in a new contract. Negotiators for ALPA and Hawaiian Airlines hammered out the deal on December 18 after nearly two weeks of grueling, nonstop bargaining under the supervision of the National Mediation Board (NMB), including a marathon final session that lasted almost 36 hours. January 14, 2010 - Hawaiian Pilots Endorse New Contract
05-30-2012, 09:09 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
How do these two quotes square with each other?
"Our very own CAPS community gives the company a dreaded one-star rating (out of five), with 41.4% of members expecting it to underperform. I am one of the 385 members currently sporting an underperform CAPScall on Delta and find myself underwater to the tune of nine points. But, have no fear, history is on my side."
"Fool contributor Sean Williams has no material interest in any companies mentioned in this article. "
Not much oversight going on over at the motley fool, apparently.
05-30-2012, 09:17 AM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
05-30-2012, 09:25 AM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
I've been reading for days now trying to educate myself. I've noticed something that really disturbs me and sends me toward a cautious better safe than sorry "NO" vote fairly strongly...
... the ALPA voice I see on here most often is Slowplay. And 95% of the time, he doesn't actually answer or give information--he just keeps asking questions. This is a standard arguing technique where you attempt to convince the other person you HAVE answered, but you don't ACTUALLY answer or commit to a position. For example, most everything is answered with something like,
"If what you say is true, then why has Delta done XXX? Why is RAH doing XXX? Hint: look at ZZZ."
This is no sort of response at all with a factual reply, it absolutely appears to me to be a continuous attempt to give the APPEARANCE of having answered, and that the answer is "no, RAH doing ZZZ proves you wrong", but in fact it doesn't mean anything of the sort. I'm sorry, but there are a lot of good questions guys are bringing up about contract enforcement in a worst-case scenario (the only kind that matters for having a contract really, it's not needed until it's edges are challenged). And I am not reading any valid answers from union respondents besides "they would never do that", "there's not much chance of that", "that's a very long shot, it doesn't make economic sense so your question is bogus", and the ingenuous answer a question with a question diversions mentioned above.
I absolutely am NOT getting a warm fuzzy that my union is protecting me from worst-case company abuse of wording in this TA.
... the ALPA voice I see on here most often is Slowplay. And 95% of the time, he doesn't actually answer or give information--he just keeps asking questions. This is a standard arguing technique where you attempt to convince the other person you HAVE answered, but you don't ACTUALLY answer or commit to a position. For example, most everything is answered with something like,
"If what you say is true, then why has Delta done XXX? Why is RAH doing XXX? Hint: look at ZZZ."
This is no sort of response at all with a factual reply, it absolutely appears to me to be a continuous attempt to give the APPEARANCE of having answered, and that the answer is "no, RAH doing ZZZ proves you wrong", but in fact it doesn't mean anything of the sort. I'm sorry, but there are a lot of good questions guys are bringing up about contract enforcement in a worst-case scenario (the only kind that matters for having a contract really, it's not needed until it's edges are challenged). And I am not reading any valid answers from union respondents besides "they would never do that", "there's not much chance of that", "that's a very long shot, it doesn't make economic sense so your question is bogus", and the ingenuous answer a question with a question diversions mentioned above.
I absolutely am NOT getting a warm fuzzy that my union is protecting me from worst-case company abuse of wording in this TA.
05-30-2012, 09:25 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
If you had not yet accrued 50% FAE you got targeted money to bring you up to an equivalent level. If you had already met or exceeded that level, you didn't need targeted money.
A 1983 hire should have been at 56% FAE at the time of the freeze.
05-30-2012, 09:42 AM
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05-30-2012, 09:44 AM
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Carl
05-30-2012, 09:53 AM
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Posts: 310
I must have missed this in our TA. Section 1 must have had a loophole for Seattle's Best that we missed.
Seattle's Best Coffee, a wholly owned subsidiary of Starbucks, is a specialty coffee retailer and wholesaler based in Seattle, Washington.
Seattle's Best Coffee, a wholly owned subsidiary of Starbucks, is a specialty coffee retailer and wholesaler based in Seattle, Washington.
Last edited by RoughLandings; 05-30-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: stupid autocorrect
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