Bucking Bar

Don't have to. Simply require the pilots flying them to be "Delta Pilots." Let 'em fly under their current contract until they have the seniority to bid mainline.

We're doing everything but that... flow throughs, flow backs, pref hiring. Pretty minor tweak to say the guys flying those airplanes are Delta pilots.

georgetg

You are absolutely correct. It's just the characterization of these ratios and what they do that is incorrect. And it is important to point out that the ratios represent a minimum "safety net." there is nothing to prevent Delta from adding more mainline flying.

I do think its important to put into real prespective what realistic gains are achievable with the ratios and I'm afraid expectations are being set up such that the final ratio should we ever need it falls well below what pilots expected.

Most likely DCI will see a reduction in block hours (my rep hinted at that). That means the actual mainline block hour gain gain will be less than what the ratio increase from 1.19 to 1.56 would suggest.

Easy example:

100 DBH (1)
119 MBH (1.19)
Ratio 1.19 MBH to 1 DBH (this is where we are right now)

reduce DCI by 25%
80 DBH (1)
117 MBH (1.56)

So if we add 70 more 76-set jets at DCI and reduce their block-hours by 25%, the minimum mainline block-hours required will be nearly 2% less than we have today.
Because we have a ratio, a higher reduction in DCI block hours results in a lower baseline for mainline.

I'll leave it up to each individual to define "significant."

Cheers
George

Bucking Bar

Actually ran those numbers some years ago. Using year 2000 hiring demographics and Contract 96 it seems the numbers were about 1.7 to 2 million per job for those already on the property and around $4 million (the value of a career) for those not on the property.

At the time, that model included stove pipe assumptions and straight seniority order staffing ....

With this TA, that model would show a gain (as there is any time mainline has more jobs).

MrBojangles

The reserves can't "go for it" because it isn't optional like it should be!

Jughead

Yes it is. I want facts and not a sell-job. I'm a big boy who can read and make up my own mind. The MEC would be much better suited to presenting pros and cons of this TA. Period.

Bucking Bar

Three step checklist:

(1) Find a phone
(2) Call Crew Scheduling
(3) Say whatever two magic words are necessary from the following list:

• I'm sick
• I'm fatigued
• I quit
• F U (will have the same effect as I quit)
• Whatever you do, don't be clever. A friend once asked a scheduler "does that jet have a pointy end? Good. Then use the pointy end and shove it ..." ALPA got him his job back after a year.

I'm kidding of course, but, people make mistakes when they are tired. Those who do safety work will all tell you that reserves tend to get in trouble after working several very long days when something else goes wrong (a distraction). Your passengers and the company deserve your efforts at your best. If you get pushed in the corner ... don't.

When I read the TA my thoughts were that the regional guys will instinctively respond to the "regional" like work rules with "regional" like defenses. The mission oriented folks will be in momentary conflict until they remember safety comes first.

acl65pilot

In italics:
Not sure if it is a true reduction. Best case I see a mainline jet count like we did at SOC. If I am wrong, show me the work. With the work rule changes, we still would have less pilots and less pilots per seat.

In the bold:
Ratios are a funny thing, and the higher ratios at the end are a result of DCI being shrunk with 50's being parked.

I see this whole part of the PWA as a protection if we shrink, not a guarantee to grow. We hit the ratios with the known aircraft retirements and deliveries at mainline (possible sans the 717) and the retirements at DCI. The catch 22 is the non-compliance provision. It states "anything beyond Delta's control." Well we would generally shrink from a bad economy or a black swan event, and aren't those our of DAL's control? Its a lot more vague than force majure.

MrBojangles

I agree..it's sad that we have sunk to the same level at mainline. I had these problems when I worked at a regional. Getting pushed to the limit-being on 0400 short call for 3 years straight nearly every month. And yes, I did have to call in fatigued at my regional. When I got hired here, it was night and day and I hope it still is in the future. I'm telling you guys, the 90-100 hour credit month may mean a few more dollars in the bank account, but you're so exhausted when you get home that you don't feel like doing anything. The union sells this TA as having the best reserve system in the industry, so I guess I should just let it rest.

tsquare

You think all those airplanes are sitting in a garage somewhere waiting to be flown over to the Delta paint hangar? It will take a little time to get them all in service. The 717s aren't even supposed to be here for a few months, and then only a trickle, but they have to be ESTABLISHED before they can take delivery of the RJs... Read the definition of "Fleet" in section 1.

Denny Crane

I would agree with all you state. My one comment would be....what can be done under the current contract? Couldn't we go below a 1 to 1 ratio? It does set a minimum on the down side and (if we ever grow again) it could be very advantageous. I know, I know, it would be even more advantageous if we did the 76 seat flying. I'm just trying to be realistic with what we have currently.

By the way, how ya been George?

Denny