Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-27-2012, 08:19 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Some might say that about you as well. The only thing you look at starts with M and ends with O N E Y....meager as it might be on this proposal you will sell the farm for a few extra dollars. You dont give a shiz about anything else because it likely wont effect your position/airplane. Who cares about the other pilots in the group as long as you get YOURS right?!
05-27-2012, 08:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 333
Isn't one of the points having a contract is that we shouldn't have to bet or get odds on what is in the agreement?
05-27-2012, 08:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?
Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.
I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...
Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.
I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...
Personally I think the companies reaction will be vindictive, and we will be made out to be the Snidely Whiplashes of the company, but that's what it took to achieve c2k. I find the TA to be too concessionary to justify not taking that risk.
05-27-2012, 08:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)
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Carl
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)
-------------------------
Carl
Winston Churchill
05-27-2012, 08:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
LGA Expansion Phase II
Question ...
RA on said on his weekly message that we are moving into Phase II of the LGA expansion. He mentioned that initially many of the destinations were started with DCI aircraft. Now that the process has matured, we are up gauging the routes to mainline aircraft. He said to check DLNET to see the changes.
Where on DLNET is this? Is he meaning going to TravelNet to view the changes? Or is there a listing of all of the equipment changes on DLNET? I've scoured the website and couldn't find anything.
Thanks ...
RA on said on his weekly message that we are moving into Phase II of the LGA expansion. He mentioned that initially many of the destinations were started with DCI aircraft. Now that the process has matured, we are up gauging the routes to mainline aircraft. He said to check DLNET to see the changes.
Where on DLNET is this? Is he meaning going to TravelNet to view the changes? Or is there a listing of all of the equipment changes on DLNET? I've scoured the website and couldn't find anything.
Thanks ...
05-27-2012, 08:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
It seems like there are a segment of DL pilots for whom this job is basically a hobby/beer money. Over on the Dalpa forum, a particular NY copilot who has no kids, flies to Nice every week so he can put on his fancy suits and take a helicopter over to see his buddy at the palace in Monaco. Good for him, this job is just a ride to the party. For those of us with mouths to feed and college educations to pay for, I find this obscene. Of course he is all for this TA, as are a few trust funders with their +1's. Somebody please call his a$$ out.
05-27-2012, 08:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
As to your "record profits"...not exactly. We've had 3 years in the last decade where we have been profitable, with an average pretax margin during those years of 3.7%. Compare that to C2K, where the 5 years prior produced and average pretax margin over 8%. 1998 was a 12% margin and produced PTIX of $1.68 billion. PTIX from 1996-2000 was $7.4 billion, and that's without adding in the PTIX made by NWA. PTIX from 2007-2011 was $1.1 billion. 2010 was our best year post merger and produced PTIX of $1.45 billion, so the numbers aren't even close even though our revenue has nearly tripled.
05-27-2012, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?
Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.
I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...
Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.
I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...
P.S. I think we did pretty good in 1998.
05-27-2012, 09:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
It seems like there are a segment of DL pilots for whom this job is basically a hobby/beer money. Over on the Dalpa forum, a particular NY copilot who has no kids, flies to Nice every week so he can put on his fancy suits and take a helicopter over to see his buddy at the palace in Monaco. Good for him, this job is just a ride to the party. For those of us with mouths to feed and college educations to pay for, I find this obscene. Of course he is all for this TA, as are a few trust funders with their +1's. Somebody please call his a$$ out.
This TA will pass 60/40, and it will be voted in primarily by junior pilots. As Sailing has said, there's little in this deal for the wide body captains. The one big pay bump during your career comes with the move to the left seat. This TA promises a lot of new left seats. That, combined with a small (too small!) pay raise, will carry the day.
05-27-2012, 09:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 169
The MEC was briefed on costing. Direct compensation is "hard" numbers. Much of the changes to Section 1 have very different costs in the eyes of management and ALPA (JV protections, code share restrictions, furlough protections) so are "soft" numbers. The manning changes created by this agreement are dependent on business plan execution so are "soft" numbers. All of that was briefed.
If Delta was going to save $1billion in RJ costs and put $1billion in your pocket instead how are you worse off?
As to "cost neutral"...again, this agreement takes money out of one of Delta's accounting silos and puts it into ours, a significant plus for pilots. Delta management has a very different target audience (we're less than 1/6 of the employee group) and a lot of interested parties in New York City and Washington, D.C. Note that Bastian was at a financial conference both the day after the TA was announced and the day after our TA was ratified by the MEC "explaining" it to investors.
If Delta was going to save $1billion in RJ costs and put $1billion in your pocket instead how are you worse off?
As to "cost neutral"...again, this agreement takes money out of one of Delta's accounting silos and puts it into ours, a significant plus for pilots. Delta management has a very different target audience (we're less than 1/6 of the employee group) and a lot of interested parties in New York City and Washington, D.C. Note that Bastian was at a financial conference both the day after the TA was announced and the day after our TA was ratified by the MEC "explaining" it to investors.
And still no answer on the productivity changes. Answer embarrassing?
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