slowplay

The MEC was briefed on costing. Direct compensation is "hard" numbers. Much of the changes to Section 1 have very different costs in the eyes of management and ALPA (JV protections, code share restrictions, furlough protections) so are "soft" numbers. The manning changes created by this agreement are dependent on business plan execution so are "soft" numbers. All of that was briefed.

If Delta was going to save $1billion in RJ costs and put $1billion in your pocket instead how are you worse off?

As to "cost neutral"...again, this agreement takes money out of one of Delta's accounting silos and puts it into ours, a significant plus for pilots. Delta management has a very different target audience (we're less than 1/6 of the employee group) and a lot of interested parties in New York City and Washington, D.C. Note that Bastian was at a financial conference both the day after the TA was announced and the day after our TA was ratified by the MEC "explaining" it to investors.

nwaf16dude

Not that it really changes your point, but it's 226.21 in 2015.

Columbia

You said "I do have a problem with people who say there is no risk in a no vote.". Who has said that? Fact is, no one. Or did you mis-speak?

slowplay

You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?

Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.

I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...

johnso29

Bump........still waiting for these questions to be answered. Anyone? alfaromeo? Anyone? slowplay? Anyone?

1234

I did not work under C2K as I was at NWA. I have to say that this contract puts the pay rates above the NWA pre bk rates (restoration?). With C2K, how much was put in your 401K account by the company, which is your money not matter what the company decides to do?

flyallnite

I can't recall the exact percentage, but under the Money Purchase Pension Plan, it was a considerable amount, to offset the company plan.

DoubleTrouble

Nice media school reply: don't answer the question asked, but answer another with what you want to say.

I asked about costing, specifically about the productivity concessions. I spoke to a rep who told me the MEC has not seen real costing in years. So again, where is the costing on these concessions? Who directed the MEC to transfer overtime flying from senior to junior pilots?

From slowplay: "If Delta was going to save $1billion in RJ costs and put $1billion in your pocket instead how are you worse off? "

So you are saying DAL is giving us $1B the took from the RJ's? Really?

And more like Bastian was bragging to the investors how this is cost neutral and "institutionalizes" our BK agreement.

1234

We really didn't lose this 2 percent. We guaranteed it to be payed out to us. Lets say we have another "Bird Flu" epidemic and the company doesn't make a dime, well guess what, we still get that 2 %. Lets say the company makes the same amount they did 2 years ago which gave us a 6% profit sharing payout, guess what, with these current rates, you are still going to get a bigger check than you did 2 years ago.

You can not say that scope is not an improvement. It really is, it just isn't as big an improvement as I (and most others) would like to see. We gave up those 76 seat jets during bk (actually I didn't get to vote on it because I was on the street looking in, where were you). This actually has hard limits on numbers of aircraft and is for once tied to block hours and not number of airframes. That was the constant complaint from many of us prior, is that the company could have a ton of mainline aircraft on the books (just sitting on various ramps, deserts, etc) but are spares and not actually in full time service yet still be in compliance with the contract.

slowplay

During C2K we had 2 DC plans. The first was a MPPP that was held by the company and invested in our names. The contribution was 5% of pay and it offset the earned benefit of the DB plan upon retirement, non-qualified monies first, then qualified money. It was only in existance from 1996-2004 when it was hard frozen, then it was terminated an distributed to pilots as part of our bankruptcy agreement. Editorial, had this plan been in existance at the start of the DB, or had there been no lump sum provision in our DB we'd probably be participating in an ongoing plan rather than a terminated one...

The second DC plan was our 401K. C2K increased the company contribution from 2% to 3% of eligible salary, but the first (approximate, as it varied by member) $1500 was in company ESOP stock. That stock was valued at $72 per share and just before bankruptcy was converted to common at about 1.7-1. It was sold by the trustee for next to nothing, so all those company contributions were wiped out.