Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-26-2012, 09:10 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 169
For a guy like you Carl this TA will bring over $100,000 additional dollars in during the 3 years after the amendable date compared to our current book.
This TA provides protections against your aircraft being JV'd out of production.
This TA is cost neutral only in the sense that Delta money was taken from different parts of the company that will now be paid to pilots.
There's no reason to continue to be so disingenuous. This has been explained, and Bar even provided Campbell's quote in context. You can't handle the truth.
This TA provides protections against your aircraft being JV'd out of production.
This TA is cost neutral only in the sense that Delta money was taken from different parts of the company that will now be paid to pilots.
There's no reason to continue to be so disingenuous. This has been explained, and Bar even provided Campbell's quote in context. You can't handle the truth.
Now we can debate whether the loss of G/S's is a good or bad thing, but if the flying is done with fewer pilots at a lower effective rate....
05-26-2012, 09:18 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,535
I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death.
-Leonardo da Vinci
-Leonardo da Vinci
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Titanic (1997)
05-26-2012, 09:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
You are absolutely correct. Working with us to facilitate refleeting was much faster, somewhat lower cost and had less risk for Delta management. Using that leverage we concluded a TA that greatly enhanced scope and got a 12.8% rate increase payable on the day after our current contract amendable date, with 4% of that paid 6 months early, as well as a whole bunch of other contract improvements.
The path without us is slower and has greater risk, but the maximum costs are very defined for management.
The path without us is slower and has greater risk, but the maximum costs are very defined for management.
Leverage that was apparently not used effectively enough.
First, it is not truly 12.8%. DALPA gave up 33% of profit sharing on the eve of the company's self proclaimed era of substanial profits. You need to back that out of your 12.8% number. The rest 3 & 3 will likely not even match inflation.
Unlike what is proclaimed in the Section 6 Opener document, "significantly increase hourly rates of pay" did not happen. While we are at it, what happened to the other desired improvements that did not materialize.
* MED pay
* Holiday pay
* Int'l pay for all destinations outside of the 48
Basically, this TA is one sided. It benefits the company more than it does the pilots. They have already proclaimed how it is cost neutral and allows the further reduction of their long term debit toward their under 10 billion number.
This TA needs to be reworked either before the vote, or, it will have to be if it fails. It would not take a giant stretch to improve it. Regardless, I have not seen more angry people since the Halloween Matrix.
05-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
With the productivity improvements (increased ALV, reserves flying ALV + 15, 30 day months all summer, reserves selling X days and buying SC, etc) it is quite possible that greenslips are rare/gone. It is quite possible that some pilots will now fly the same amount of block hours with a far lower W-2.
Now we can debate whether the loss of G/S's is a good or bad thing, but if the flying is done with fewer pilots at a lower effective rate....
Now we can debate whether the loss of G/S's is a good or bad thing, but if the flying is done with fewer pilots at a lower effective rate....
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. We can debate the possibilities, but how about we put some probabilities and context with them?
05-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
It's also quite possible that every reserve will see a substantial improvement (the highest % increase in the contract) in earnings due to the increase in reserve guarantee, that the extra 6 X days per year and changes to asterisk rotations will increase staffing requirements, and that there will be no change to greenslip availability due to the nature of how greenslips occur. With a 19.7% payrate increase over 3 years and an early retirement program for the most senior on our list it is highly unlikely that pilots will wind up with a lower W-2. Also, should things go really south and block hours fall pilots will now have protections from their job being outsourced.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. We can debate the possibilities, but how about we put some probabilities and context with them?
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. We can debate the possibilities, but how about we put some probabilities and context with them?
05-26-2012, 10:05 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
05-26-2012, 10:08 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Any chance we can get someone (FTB??) to put together a spreadsheet outlining open issues or loopholes that need to be addressed in the contract (i.e. pilots coming with 717's, circumstance over which the company does not have control, Republic carvout)?
I am just thinking that it would be a great tool to have one document with all the items that are not good in the agreement.
I am just thinking that it would be a great tool to have one document with all the items that are not good in the agreement.
I guess for stuff like the 717 coming with pilots I need to add a section "OTHER".
05-27-2012, 01:11 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
VPR,
The part of the puzzle you are missing is the de facto ownership of the CRJ-200 fleet. Many of the airplanes are actually owned by Delta and leased to the operator. Even in the case where Delta transferred the leases, or the leases originated with the operator, Delta provided guarantee provisions in most cases.
It is my guess that part and parcel of this deal is a significant debt restructuring which will likely result in the Next Gen CRJ-900's specifically being an operating expense instead of a capital expense. By taking this obligation off balance sheet and making it a monthly payment to a service provider Delta helps get down to their 10Bn debt goal.
With less debt comes an improved ability for Delta to obtain new wide body jets. To add a guess to a guess, the 777-300 would be 15% to 30% more efficient doing most of what our 747's do, especially in Asia.
The part of the puzzle you are missing is the de facto ownership of the CRJ-200 fleet. Many of the airplanes are actually owned by Delta and leased to the operator. Even in the case where Delta transferred the leases, or the leases originated with the operator, Delta provided guarantee provisions in most cases.
It is my guess that part and parcel of this deal is a significant debt restructuring which will likely result in the Next Gen CRJ-900's specifically being an operating expense instead of a capital expense. By taking this obligation off balance sheet and making it a monthly payment to a service provider Delta helps get down to their 10Bn debt goal.
With less debt comes an improved ability for Delta to obtain new wide body jets. To add a guess to a guess, the 777-300 would be 15% to 30% more efficient doing most of what our 747's do, especially in Asia.
What Dal could do is exercise all the triggers in these Asa/CPA take the jets they are on the hook for do a swap out with bombardier for the CS series and create a separate company that had Dal pilot fly em. Eh?
05-27-2012, 01:19 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
05-27-2012, 01:59 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Alfa and Slow:
Wrt to the ratios in DCI and the 717:
Are the ratios based upon known retirements and deliveries?
Do the ratios include adding the 717?
Do the ratios guarantee growth or just no more stagnation?
If the company gets all 88 717's and exercises all options for the 76 seat platform, what will mainlines fleet count be? DCI?
If you are unwilling or unable to answer the above question; given the ratios and known fleet plan at mainline, how many growth 717's would we be getting over current mainline jet count?
A follow on:
What is the expected ratio of mainline growth to newly allowed 76 seat jets. Less than 1:1 in favor of DCI? Better than 1:1? If so by how much?
What these ratios seems to imply is one "growth" snb to every newly allowed large 76 seat jet. The numbers guys are saying best case we see a fleet of about 770 or about where we were at SOC.
Please show your work. I am curious about this and what real growth if any this will result in with the work rule changes.
Thanks,
Want to make an informed vote.
Wrt to the ratios in DCI and the 717:
Are the ratios based upon known retirements and deliveries?
Do the ratios include adding the 717?
Do the ratios guarantee growth or just no more stagnation?
If the company gets all 88 717's and exercises all options for the 76 seat platform, what will mainlines fleet count be? DCI?
If you are unwilling or unable to answer the above question; given the ratios and known fleet plan at mainline, how many growth 717's would we be getting over current mainline jet count?
A follow on:
What is the expected ratio of mainline growth to newly allowed 76 seat jets. Less than 1:1 in favor of DCI? Better than 1:1? If so by how much?
What these ratios seems to imply is one "growth" snb to every newly allowed large 76 seat jet. The numbers guys are saying best case we see a fleet of about 770 or about where we were at SOC.
Please show your work. I am curious about this and what real growth if any this will result in with the work rule changes.
Thanks,
Want to make an informed vote.
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