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Old 05-26-2012, 09:36 AM
  #101541  
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Originally Posted by scambo1
Until we hear otherwise in an official document, WE better assume the pilots are coming with the planes.
If you think people are out to get you, they probably are.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:37 AM
  #101542  
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Originally Posted by scambo1

OBTW, how did hiring 35% from ALPA DCI make it into this TA?

I sure hope this TA gets voted down and the MUCH improved TA that hopefully follows has this removed. I'm sure all the DCI pilots hope it stays but I say why not interview and hire the best people you can.... Whether it's 100% DCI alpa pilots or 0% showing up in class. Just hire the best you can. Don't put restrictions on your selection process
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:37 AM
  #101543  
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Originally Posted by CVG767A
Alfa, do you have any info on the cost of this TA? I'm trying to verify the statement by the Council 20 chairman that this TA is cost neutral (page 6 of his letter).
Haha throw Alfa a softball so he can put his own dissinformation numbers in place to sway the crowd. It's not going to work here. Sorry
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:39 AM
  #101544  
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
Alfa, you probably already did this, but could you provide a breakdown of cost by year beginning with this year through 2015?
2012 0%
2013 0%
2014 0%
2015 0%

This correlates with having half you airline outsourced and living under a grossly unfair Railway Labor Act which results in your negotiating leverage being ... wait for it ... 0%.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Even if you do assume it is cost neutral for Delta, it is not cost neutral for pilots. The total value of money in our pockets is about $1 billion over the life of the contract. Some of that money would have been spent on RJ costs. So would you rather have that money in your pocket or would you rather send it to engine maintenance? If Delta has to send it to engine maintenance they are not going to give it back to you.
... and that is the brilliance of letting the tail wag the dog. Literally, we are the left over bargaining from DCI restructuring.

Wow how the center of gravity of this Company has shifted!

Hey, I am not complaining. At least this fight is not at the 100 seat level.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:39 AM
  #101545  
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Originally Posted by whitt767
So Steve Dickson is going to give the 717 bid this fall to AT pilots?

From Dickson's weekly update:
"Deliveries of the 717s would start in the middle of 2013 at a rate of about 3 per month, and we would plan on a bid this fall to begin staffing the category.* The 717 will be a separate category, and the TA has established pay rates equivalent to DC-9 rates.**"
I simply want legally binding proof that pilots aren't coming with the planes. A memo from Steve Dickson isn't going to soothe my discomfort. A lot of AT CA's will be losing their CA seat due to this, and will take a considerable hit in income. You can bet they'll be fighting for their fragmentation clause. If they come with the planes, it's essentially a pointless move for Delta pilots.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:40 AM
  #101546  
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Originally Posted by whitt767
If you think people are out to get you, they probably are.
This probably affects you more than me, I don't know if you were being TIC or not.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:41 AM
  #101547  
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Originally Posted by georgetg
Ding Ding Ding

Even better with this TA we would permit adding the top-of the pay scale CRJ-900 at DCI. Meanwhile the new jets at Delta will be at the bottom of the pay-scales.
Cheers
George
Yup, half the seats added are at the bottom of the payscale, the same place that the DC-9 currently being flown by Delta FO's is located. The other half (Capt) are in the middle of the payscale, well above what you're currently at. And all those seats aren't at RJ payscales.

If you don't like the 717, then you'd really hate adding RJ's to mainline, as those would really cause a lot of displacements with your logic.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:43 AM
  #101548  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
2012 0%
2013 0%
2014 0%
2015 0%

This correlates with having half you airline outsourced and living under a grossly unfair Railway Labor Act which results in your negotiating leverage being ... wait for it ... 0%.
But somehow you seem to want to keep it that way (at least 46% outsourced) and you seem to think that's better than the maximum 39% outsourced...go figure.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:46 AM
  #101549  
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Originally Posted by slowplay
But somehow you seem to want to keep it that way (at least 46% outsourced) and you seem to think that's better than the maximum 39% outsourced...go figure.
Not sure that is what he meant. He was yes leaning until he saw the loopholes, that he sees as negating the positive costing.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:47 AM
  #101550  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You're right Buzz, but what really gets me is Tom's statement that this TA is cost neutral to the company. Amazing. That was my bar napkin math on it as well, but slowplay/sailingfun were saying it was over 300 million a year.
Carl
Carl, if DCI costs were to decrease by $1Billion and DL mainline pilot costs were to increase by $1Billion solely due to our new PWA, it would be cost neutral...to Delta. The Delta pilots would be $1Billion ahead.

You can't handle the truth...
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