Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-26-2012, 05:54 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
Apparently, as per the C54 letter, nodded to in this, and from other inside sources, there was a push to go back and try to get more money before the big vote. They knew it had little wow factor.
The fact is that this thing is well below the contract survey, and that has been well acknowledge.
Well.. where to we go from here? Swallow this big pill and be glad we have something in our stomach now? Or fight it out and risk going hungry?
The fact is that this thing is well below the contract survey, and that has been well acknowledge.
Well.. where to we go from here? Swallow this big pill and be glad we have something in our stomach now? Or fight it out and risk going hungry?
05-26-2012, 05:58 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Redact ID'ng data or plain hearsay as required, but let's hear it. Lots of us are still in the "how did this happen" funk and it may answer some questions
05-26-2012, 06:05 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 612
Quick question.
SFO & LAX. SFO is a little easier to get to, but both about the same amount of time.
Going to NRT. SFO has 767 Business and LAX has 747 Business. Having never been on a 747 with the flat-bed config (never been on a 747 period), is it worth just a little more hassle to get to LAX?
Both flights have seats. I either drive to SFO or fly a commuter to LAX, I'll need to leave the house at the same time regardless. Is the ride in the 747 worth the extra leg?
Thx,
Humboldt
SFO & LAX. SFO is a little easier to get to, but both about the same amount of time.
Going to NRT. SFO has 767 Business and LAX has 747 Business. Having never been on a 747 with the flat-bed config (never been on a 747 period), is it worth just a little more hassle to get to LAX?
Both flights have seats. I either drive to SFO or fly a commuter to LAX, I'll need to leave the house at the same time regardless. Is the ride in the 747 worth the extra leg?
Thx,
Humboldt
For our honeymoon we went to Phuket. We went ATL-JFK-NRT-BKK-HKT. JFK-NRT was on the 747. It will be worth the trip to LAX to get on the whale. Ask the gate agent to put you on the upper deck. It makes a huge difference. 2 x 2 business class seating. No carts up and down the aisle. I think there was only one FA on the upper deck, so no annoying cat conversations when you are trying to sleep.
05-26-2012, 06:18 AM
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05-26-2012, 06:21 AM
Back on TDY
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
05-26-2012, 06:29 AM
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Done a lot of non-revving with a friend of mine who, after business class all over the world, still was excited the first time we took the whale!
The upper deck is fantastic if there's seats open -- two flight attendants for a very small number of pax. Of course, they also have to keep Carl Spackler happy up front!!
The upper deck is fantastic if there's seats open -- two flight attendants for a very small number of pax. Of course, they also have to keep Carl Spackler happy up front!!
Carl
05-26-2012, 06:38 AM
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Not sure it was a handshake or a true TA. It is apparent after reading all of the reps positions on the subject that the product(TA) and associated pay was below direction. The nc and admin should have asked direction from the MEC before TAing it. They TAed the sucker with the entire MEC in ATL at a hotel. They were assembled and could have provided direction eight hours later. That my friends is the elephant in the room.
That's fine. Now we get to speak...or lose our right to.
Carl
05-26-2012, 06:52 AM
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Posts: 5,016
Not sure it was a handshake or a true TA. It is apparent after reading all of the reps positions on the subject that the product(TA) and associated pay was below direction. The nc and admin should have asked direction from the MEC before TAing it. They TAed the sucker with the entire MEC in ATL at a hotel. They were assembled and could have provided direction eight hours later. That my friends is the elephant in the room.
05-26-2012, 06:56 AM
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We have some strong leaders...and we had some not-so-strong. What I can't get beyond is at the tail of a rapid company push, we (collectivelly) accepted their first offer as being "all they'll be willing to offer."
I've been on the company side of this in another life and a negotiator....our acquiescence is startling. We took the first offer from a company that wanted to expedite negotiations. What, what, what? And we didn't go back with at least a cursory "no, they won't accept that" "how about this?" I'm not saying it can't get better....I'm saying how do we know?
I've been on the company side of this in another life and a negotiator....our acquiescence is startling. We took the first offer from a company that wanted to expedite negotiations. What, what, what? And we didn't go back with at least a cursory "no, they won't accept that" "how about this?" I'm not saying it can't get better....I'm saying how do we know?
This is exactly what our guys did. This despite the letter from O'Malley stating we needed to let them show us what they can bring to this pilot group in the first section 6 in over a decade. And this is it? And dump it on the full MEC telling them it's a "fool's errand" to even attempt to go back for more? More than ZERO?
This would be knee slapping funny if it wasn't so face palming embarrassing. If we say YES to this as a group, I don't see how the company could ever respect our resolve on anything. I can't imagine a more watershed event for Delta pilots than this one.
Carl
05-26-2012, 07:11 AM
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When the TA was initially released, my first reaction was HELLE NO. My main issue was--and is-- the pay rates. They are initially 6-7% below what I wanted. I took this as a personal affront. How dare they offer to pay us less than Southwest rates?
In reading this board, everyone seems to be mostly okay with the rates; scope is the big issue. This has caused me to reread Section 1. To me, it seems that scope is improved. The arguments on this board in support of the tentative scope clause seem to be more fact based, while the arguments against it seem to be more emotion based. Boomer's question about potential loopholes in Section 1 is, in my mind the central question. I strongly suspect I'm going to have to explore that one on my own in order to find an answer.
Alfa, you make a lot of sense, but your condescending tone is going to turn people off to what you have to say. Carl, I took you off "ignore" after the TA came out. While you started with some good, cogent arguments, your posts have once again become little more than ranting, innuendo, and name-calling. You'll probably be back on my ignore list soon (not that it matters to you).
Sailing, it seems like you're happy with everything but the rates. That's where I am. Is there more money available for that? Maybe. My concern is that we turn down this TA, and the NC is directed to go back to the company to improve scope...or sick leave...or something else that, in my opinion, was okay on the original TA.
If these subsequent negotiations don't result in a TA, then we've passed up an improved contract for nothing. We end up getting the same deal two years from now.
So now I'm left with deciding whether I'm going to play hardball just to put another $600/month (net) in my pay check. I'm increasingly thinking that the risk outweighs the reward.
In reading this board, everyone seems to be mostly okay with the rates; scope is the big issue. This has caused me to reread Section 1. To me, it seems that scope is improved. The arguments on this board in support of the tentative scope clause seem to be more fact based, while the arguments against it seem to be more emotion based. Boomer's question about potential loopholes in Section 1 is, in my mind the central question. I strongly suspect I'm going to have to explore that one on my own in order to find an answer.
Alfa, you make a lot of sense, but your condescending tone is going to turn people off to what you have to say. Carl, I took you off "ignore" after the TA came out. While you started with some good, cogent arguments, your posts have once again become little more than ranting, innuendo, and name-calling. You'll probably be back on my ignore list soon (not that it matters to you).
Sailing, it seems like you're happy with everything but the rates. That's where I am. Is there more money available for that? Maybe. My concern is that we turn down this TA, and the NC is directed to go back to the company to improve scope...or sick leave...or something else that, in my opinion, was okay on the original TA.
If these subsequent negotiations don't result in a TA, then we've passed up an improved contract for nothing. We end up getting the same deal two years from now.
So now I'm left with deciding whether I'm going to play hardball just to put another $600/month (net) in my pay check. I'm increasingly thinking that the risk outweighs the reward.
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