Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin

Thanks to FTB for crystallizing my thought process. We need to change our mindset/negotiating strategy. We HAVE to stop negotiating for the good times and negotiate for the bad. If that entails giving up profit sharing then so be it.

Since deregulation how many concessionary contracts have airlines had? How many positive contracts have we had and what was their time duration?

We don't end up negotiating for the long term good, only for the short term. When things go bad, they have and they will, we end up giving back. We give back hourly rates and when they can't take anymore of our pay, they take our pensions, our work rules and our scope.

They CAN'T take our pensions anymore, they CAN take our scope. By ALLOWING the company MORE large, new, cost efficient RJ's in return for ratios, we are playing Russian roulette. It is ONLY a matter of time before the next economic/company financial downturn.

Force Majeure, they can't reduce OUR block hours AND GIVE them to the regionals if they DON'T have the airframes!!!!!

Originally Posted by PropNWA

Why wouldn't it? Maybe because we won't have to fix as many huge loopholes in section 1 next time because we bit the bullet this time and fixed a lot of problems. We'll already have downside protection with the ratios and we'll have cleaned up a lot of the JV language. So, at that point, the only reason the cap might go up again is if the pilot group decides they want to trade more scope for pay raises and I would certainly hope we've learned our lesson on that one.

I'm sure we'd all love to fix our section 1 problems without giving up another 76 seater but that requires both sides to agree on it and anyone with the slightest bit of common sense knows that isn't going to happen here in the real world.

Originally Posted by orvil

It's part of our new scope. It's new RJ lift.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

So you want to let them cut 737 and 767 flying while they add 717's? We included all domestic because we wanted to include all domestic. That's the point, they can't play hide the ball.

I will go back to block hours. The very first input to determine line holders in the staffing formula is block hours. Not flight segments, ASM's, or any other metric. If you want to protect Delta pilot jobs, you want to protect as many as possible and you want to protect them with the key item that creates jobs. If we cut a 757 from JFK to LAX and replace it with an out and back in a 717 from ATL to SAV, you doubled the flight segments and cut the manning required by two thirds. Please go back and read the staffing formula and understand it. It is in Section 22 of your contract, I believe page 3 or 4.

You didn't tell me what number you came up with in my math problem. No one else did either. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by PilotFrog

Why in the world are we HELPING out SWA by taking the 717s? I thought there were a bunch of 319s out there that were a good price.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Ummm...because you're a condescending d!ck?

Carl