Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: DL 7ER F/O
Posts: 249
FTB,
You just hit the nail, once these aircraft are here, they are here to stay, remember that their number will NOT be reduced. That one sentence led me to vote NO on our previous agreements, and I think that statement will come back to haunt us with this agreement. I do think once they are here MGT will be back for block hour restriction relief after just a short time.
Keep these jets off property unless WE are at the controls!
Maybe we could get our point across if all the NO voters put their ballots in on the first day the polls open. I have read the agreement and in no way can I vote for this, as DAL has become my hobby job, it quit being a career long ago.
You just hit the nail, once these aircraft are here, they are here to stay, remember that their number will NOT be reduced. That one sentence led me to vote NO on our previous agreements, and I think that statement will come back to haunt us with this agreement. I do think once they are here MGT will be back for block hour restriction relief after just a short time.
Keep these jets off property unless WE are at the controls!
Maybe we could get our point across if all the NO voters put their ballots in on the first day the polls open. I have read the agreement and in no way can I vote for this, as DAL has become my hobby job, it quit being a career long ago.
05-24-2012, 12:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Yeah really. Let's count the savings.
300 lost pilot jobs forever due to work rules/increased productivity.
An early out that gets rid of top scale pilots and replaces them with year ones.
Savings from smoothing out future training bubbles and less need to hire for that.
Massive savings on accelerated parking of money losing 50 seaters.
Increased revenue on new fleet of 70 extremely cost effective planes at DCI.
Savings of 1/3 pilot profit sharing up to the 2.5B profit level.
Subsidized A/C leases on an already cheap used airframe (717).
And (they would get this anyway, but it still counts against our 3% COLAs):
Likely full inflation rate revenue increases from increased ticket prices.
And possibly:
Less staffing from less sick calls due to intimidation.
New round of DCI cut throat predatory bargaining to get shiny new jets.
Add all that up and then subtract that from the "costing" of this TA and I have a feeling its very, very affordable.
300 lost pilot jobs forever due to work rules/increased productivity.
An early out that gets rid of top scale pilots and replaces them with year ones.
Savings from smoothing out future training bubbles and less need to hire for that.
Massive savings on accelerated parking of money losing 50 seaters.
Increased revenue on new fleet of 70 extremely cost effective planes at DCI.
Savings of 1/3 pilot profit sharing up to the 2.5B profit level.
Subsidized A/C leases on an already cheap used airframe (717).
And (they would get this anyway, but it still counts against our 3% COLAs):
Likely full inflation rate revenue increases from increased ticket prices.
And possibly:
Less staffing from less sick calls due to intimidation.
New round of DCI cut throat predatory bargaining to get shiny new jets.
Add all that up and then subtract that from the "costing" of this TA and I have a feeling its very, very affordable.
05-24-2012, 12:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: M88A MSP
Posts: 117
Another issue here, and call me cynical, but the block hour ratio seems like a pinky promise for now. Just like the 325 cap and the 255 "final last time this is all we need" cap before it.
Once they acquire the airplanes they can come back and seek relief on the block hour ratio not working and making those planes unprofitable. If we've got a hole in C2012, we might exchange block hour ratio to fix that other hole.
But if they never had the jets in the first place then they never had the jets.
Once they acquire the airplanes they can come back and seek relief on the block hour ratio not working and making those planes unprofitable. If we've got a hole in C2012, we might exchange block hour ratio to fix that other hole.
But if they never had the jets in the first place then they never had the jets.
Exactly! Anyone remember C2K and those block hour limits? History repeats itself.
05-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Right now we have almost zero leaving this year and only 80 or 90 next year. Even 2014 I think is only around 150 or so. Very manageable. Its better and cheaper from the company standpoint to try and get some from years beyond that (where the numbers rapidly rise to >300/year all the way to >800/year) to leave in the next 2-3 years. That way they are gone and the big years down the road are flattened out a bit, thus resulting in a smaller training bubble down the road.
05-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
05-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: ????????????????
Posts: 216
Is the TA on the ALPA website?
Is anyone having trouble logging in to the site?
Is anyone having trouble logging in to the site?
05-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 589
05-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
There are all kinds of little things that were not addressed. For instance, the coach DH issue with SIN-NRT. (I think that's the city pair.) I will never fly international again, but I think this should have been changed. It sucks for the guys doing it. I looked for it and couldn't find any change.
That's the new contract. All kinds of holes that didn't get plugged.
That's the new contract. All kinds of holes that didn't get plugged.
05-24-2012, 12:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Thanks to FTB for crystallizing my thought process. We need to change our mindset/negotiating strategy. We HAVE to stop negotiating for the good times and negotiate for the bad. If that entails giving up profit sharing then so be it.
Since deregulation how many concessionary contracts have airlines had? How many positive contracts have we had and what was their time duration?
We don't end up negotiating for the long term good, only for the short term. When things go bad, they have and they will, we end up giving back. We give back hourly rates and when they can't take anymore of our pay, they take our pensions, our work rules and our scope.
They CAN'T take our pensions anymore, they CAN take our scope. By ALLOWING the company MORE large, new, cost efficient RJ's in return for ratios, we are playing Russian roulette. It is ONLY a matter of time before the next economic/company financial downturn.
Force Majeure, they can't reduce OUR block hours AND GIVE them to the regionals if they DON'T have the airframes!!!!!
Since deregulation how many concessionary contracts have airlines had? How many positive contracts have we had and what was their time duration?
We don't end up negotiating for the long term good, only for the short term. When things go bad, they have and they will, we end up giving back. We give back hourly rates and when they can't take anymore of our pay, they take our pensions, our work rules and our scope.
They CAN'T take our pensions anymore, they CAN take our scope. By ALLOWING the company MORE large, new, cost efficient RJ's in return for ratios, we are playing Russian roulette. It is ONLY a matter of time before the next economic/company financial downturn.
Force Majeure, they can't reduce OUR block hours AND GIVE them to the regionals if they DON'T have the airframes!!!!!
05-24-2012, 12:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: ????????????????
Posts: 216
There are all kinds of little things that were not addressed. For instance, the coach DH issue with SIN-NRT. (I think that's the city pair.) I will never fly international again, but I think this should have been changed. It sucks for the guys doing it. I looked for it and couldn't find any change.
That's the new contract. All kinds of holes that didn't get plugged.
That's the new contract. All kinds of holes that didn't get plugged.
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