forgot to bid

I know we're taking care of the 744s and modifying them, but I'd like assurances 773s are not the 747 killers they've been elsewhere.

I like our whales. Fun to look at it. Still can't figure out why we don't use real video of them taking off in commercials.

flyallnite

I think it's become pretty clear by now (the UAL Chairman's memo, the 717 purchase, the non-contract employee raises) that this TA is the spearhead of an industry wide effort to contain labor costs, with DALPA, knowingly or not, facilitating the effort. C'mon, does anybody think the non-contract employees will get anything other than 4-8-3-3? A 10 cent per diem increase with a corresponding reduction in profit sharing?! Why must we be tied to FA compensation? To regional airline fleet plans? To ALPA member hiring quotas? To having to pay for re-fleeting mainline?

flyallnite

... and what about retro pay? All this talk of time value of money... Is DALPA basically saying that they will break with past precedent and NOT demand retro pay from amendable date?? Even if you retire, you still get a retro check if the pay rate increase for the hours you flew... do you not?

dragon

First NNP is out, thoughts?

Bucking Bar

Depends on what you negotiate. Previous airline negotiated signing bonuses so guys like me who quit (partially to protest that Company's bad faith) would not share in the pay out. Seeing as how retired guys do not vote for Reps, I doubt anyone is going to negotiate too hard on their behalf.

johnso29

Could one not argue that they are ALREADY gone? There are currently 153 76 seaters flying around. Almost 600 RJs covering routes Delta pilots once flew. We would now be reducing the max number of outsourced airplanes to 450. This includes turboprops, and establishes a outsourced hull limit that currently doesn't exist.

Again, how are we creating it? Does is it not already exist?

Not sure how we are letting it slide. I realize we would see more 76 seaters, but we see a block hour ratio that IMO is revolutionary, a serious reduction in turbo props allowed, eliminating the back door outsourcing of geared turbofans, and capping the allowable number of outsourced hulls.

We are shrinking this airline from 593 with NO limit to 450 hull cap.

I think that ship sailed a while ago.

Please don't take my post as a scoff at yours. I'm honestly just trying to look at this from all angles. I agree we have more leverage now then we have had in a long time, but in all honesty I do NOT see us holding out to the point where management just gives in and brings all flying back to mainline in a snap of the fingers. It just won't happen. We don't have that much leverage. I see this as a step towards reducing the amount of outsourced flying, and preventing a scenario where mainline shrinks while regionals grow. I would still like to see a sunset agreement on the DCI flying, so there is room for improvement IMO.

Bucking Bar

Johnso29,

Block ratios were in Contract 2000 and conceded almost immediately. Those numbers were silly and predicted to fail by anyone with computing power equal to an abacus and an ounce of common sense.

The numbers in this deal are a lot more realistic. Have not finished my models yet.

The Company was deadlocked at 82 seats. Our negotiators gave up something to make-up the difference. It could be said that we "bought" scope.

johnso29

Were those the 90/10 numbers you gave earlier? How were they conceded? Thanks

Pineapple Guy

ftb, I don't have the time/desire to refute each point, but I'll take this one.

Current SWA rate is $216 on the only airplane they fly, the B-737, and 2/3rds of their jets are -700s or above. Our 1/1/13 rate on that same airplane is $204.47, BUT... we get 14% DC on top of that. For them to get 14% total going into the 401k, they need to put 7% of their own money, so...

DAL 737 = $204.47 into paycheck and $28.63 ($204.47 x 14%) into 401k/DC
SWA 737 = $200.88 (216 x .93) into paycheck and $30.24 (216 x 14%) into 401k

Or looked at it another way, for a SWA pilot to make MORE W2 than a DAL guy, he would have to limit his 401k contribution to 5%. Then his W2 is 216 x .95 = $205.20, but then his 401k is only $21.60.

Pineapple Guy

I've been doing this over 20 years, and never heard of retirees getting a retro check when a new PWA is signed.