Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-22-2012, 05:40 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: 765A
Posts: 98
How did the NC approve this 4:30 a day. With a carve out after 10pm. Most red eyes depart after 10pm, so we'll continue to see 3 day trips worth 10:30. A 4 day trip can pay 18:00. Modest pay raise, relaxing scope and making us work more days is not worth this rush job contract. Is this what the "Pilot Survey" says we want? I hope not. I want the NC to go back and clean up this mess.
05-22-2012, 05:43 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Note one: Upon the delivery of a 223rd 76-seat aircraft, the number of
39 permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 125 regardless of the number otherwise
40 provided in Exception one.
41 Note two: If on January 1, 2014, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the
42 number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the
43 maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage
44 in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient
45 number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these
46 requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The
Section 1 - Scope
1-7
1 Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in
2 the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the
3 cause of such non-compliance.
NO
Guess what another Sep 11th, another economic downturn, another STUPID management decision and we'll be screwed again!!!
39 permitted 50-seat aircraft will be 125 regardless of the number otherwise
40 provided in Exception one.
41 Note two: If on January 1, 2014, or any succeeding January 1 thereafter, the
42 number of 50-seat aircraft in category A or C operations exceeds the
43 maximum permitted number, the Company will require carriers that engage
44 in category A or C operations to suspend or cease operations on a sufficient
45 number of 50-seat aircraft or 76-seat aircraft to comply with these
46 requirements within 60 days and to remain in compliance thereafter. The
Section 1 - Scope
1-7
1 Company will be excused from compliance with the provisions of this Note in
2 the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the
3 cause of such non-compliance.
NO
Guess what another Sep 11th, another economic downturn, another STUPID management decision and we'll be screwed again!!!
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (I have too much respect for myself) and I did not sleep in a HI Express last night, but Marylin Millian is HOT and I do watch the People's Court)
05-22-2012, 05:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
05-22-2012, 05:44 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: 765A
Posts: 98
Amen brother. We deserve more. The other employee groups are close to what they made before the concessions. The pilots are still miles away from our pre bankruptcy contract.
05-22-2012, 05:45 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
As the resident graphic designer, would it be possible for you to gen up a flow chart showing the scope tradeoffs? IOW how many large "regional" jets can come online at any given time, and in conjunction with the removal of how many 50 seaters... how many 717s do we have to actually see in DAL livery before the company can buy any large "regional" jets? It will be a tough assignment. Probably harder than making sense of an insurance policy... But you seem to have a good handle on the graphic stuff needed. Possible?
but let's make sure these 3 questions are answered before anyone including the UAL MEC uses my arithmetic as a basis for anything. 1. How many large RJs can come online at any given time?
2. When do the 50 seaters have to exit/
3. How many 717s have to show up before RJs can show?
Let me research that, I've seen that once the order is placed the growth of large RJs does not have to be balanced and the balance doesn't take place until 2014. So a little more verification on Section 1 would be interesting to see what a balancing in 2014 would look like if we announce 717s today, all the RJs are ordered and we expand large DCI in mass, park mainline DC-9s, 88s, 320s, 757s and 763s then balance the checkbook.
^^^ if that didn't make any sense it's because I wrote it.
05-22-2012, 05:47 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
05-22-2012, 05:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
As I understand it, to add the full 70 76 seaters, they have to add 88 717s or 319s. (70x1.25=87.5)
05-22-2012, 05:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Reposting:
This is the first time anything at Delta has made me wake up angry in the middle of the night.
Folks, we work for arguably the world's most successful, most profitable airline. If not quite there yet, we are most definitely on that trajectory. We should feel absolutely insulted at the peanuts we are being offered in exchange for scope and profit sharing cuts. We are so beaten down by five years of stagnation that we are thirsty for anything that sounds like an improvement.
The rest of the industry is counting on us to raise the bar! If we don't get a good contract now, in the best of times, when management is dying to sign one, how in he!! are we going to get one down the road, let's say in 2015, after the next 9/11 or natural disaster? This TA does not raise the bar - it lowers it, to the point the other pilot organizations will trip on it. Look at the immediate response from Jeff Smisek to the UCAL pilots - "The DL guys are giving away scope for a little pay. You guys will need to do the same. Let's get this done."
Let's prove him wrong! Let's show management, the analysts, and ALPA that we cannot be forced into a corner by the false "urgency" being pushed at us. There are so many loopholes in this TA it has absolutely no teeth. Production balances that disappear if anything happens that Delta cannot control? Like what, oil going up? An earthquake? A hull loss? It's preposterous we would sign something like that.
I would much rather keep our current TA for the next three years. It is obviously applying some pressure to management that's driving them to the bargaining table (probably the 255 cap on large RJs). By signing POS2012, we lose that leverage. We give management PLENTY of large RJs to continue to replace mainline flying throughout the system. And, when 2015 does get here, they have zero motivation to do a new contract quickly. Negotiations end up stagnating then, instead of now, and in the meantime we mainline pilots are replaced at a much greater rate.
Let's not continue to sell this profession down the river for a pittance. Vote no!
This is the first time anything at Delta has made me wake up angry in the middle of the night.
Folks, we work for arguably the world's most successful, most profitable airline. If not quite there yet, we are most definitely on that trajectory. We should feel absolutely insulted at the peanuts we are being offered in exchange for scope and profit sharing cuts. We are so beaten down by five years of stagnation that we are thirsty for anything that sounds like an improvement.
The rest of the industry is counting on us to raise the bar! If we don't get a good contract now, in the best of times, when management is dying to sign one, how in he!! are we going to get one down the road, let's say in 2015, after the next 9/11 or natural disaster? This TA does not raise the bar - it lowers it, to the point the other pilot organizations will trip on it. Look at the immediate response from Jeff Smisek to the UCAL pilots - "The DL guys are giving away scope for a little pay. You guys will need to do the same. Let's get this done."
Let's prove him wrong! Let's show management, the analysts, and ALPA that we cannot be forced into a corner by the false "urgency" being pushed at us. There are so many loopholes in this TA it has absolutely no teeth. Production balances that disappear if anything happens that Delta cannot control? Like what, oil going up? An earthquake? A hull loss? It's preposterous we would sign something like that.
I would much rather keep our current TA for the next three years. It is obviously applying some pressure to management that's driving them to the bargaining table (probably the 255 cap on large RJs). By signing POS2012, we lose that leverage. We give management PLENTY of large RJs to continue to replace mainline flying throughout the system. And, when 2015 does get here, they have zero motivation to do a new contract quickly. Negotiations end up stagnating then, instead of now, and in the meantime we mainline pilots are replaced at a much greater rate.
Let's not continue to sell this profession down the river for a pittance. Vote no!
05-22-2012, 06:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Been a non-posting lurker here on APC for probably the last 8+years and this ridiculous TA is the item that has brought me out of lurking (it has taken quite the effort to "bite my tongue" on issues in this thread over the years).
All I can say is.... WOW. I can't believe they sent this out to the membership.
Absolute NO vote from me.
All I can say is.... WOW. I can't believe they sent this out to the membership.
Absolute NO vote from me.
05-22-2012, 06:04 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
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