DL v UA (ATL or IAH)?
09-28-2024, 06:41 AM
#31
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,959
That said, lately, captain upgrades have been awarded as short as ~18 months at DL. The most recent bid was an outlier, but was about 2.5 years. BUT, it will both get more senior and take longer as hiring has slowed since those pilots were hired. I would suspect that someone applying today could easily see a 5-year upgrade, or even longer. Far too many variables to accurately project though.
Last edited by FangsF15; 09-28-2024 at 07:44 AM.
09-28-2024, 01:43 PM
#32
Back on Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: A330 FO
Posts: 727
I mentioned this in another thread yesterday, but current upgrade timing is irrelevant to someone not on property. Things have and are changing far too fast for that data to matter to you.
That said, lately, captain upgrades have been awarded as short as ~18 months at DL. The most recent bid was an outlier, but was about 2.5 years. BUT, it will both get more senior and take longer as hiring has slowed since those pilots were hired. I would suspect that someone applying today could easily see a 5-year upgrade, or even longer. Far too many variables to accurately project though.
That said, lately, captain upgrades have been awarded as short as ~18 months at DL. The most recent bid was an outlier, but was about 2.5 years. BUT, it will both get more senior and take longer as hiring has slowed since those pilots were hired. I would suspect that someone applying today could easily see a 5-year upgrade, or even longer. Far too many variables to accurately project though.
AE Trend Analysis Thread
PS. Credit goes to Fangs for the Data, too.
09-28-2024, 08:46 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,414
I will always reference the "AE Trend Analysis" when people start talking about 'time to upgrade'. Like Fangs said, time is a moving target dependent upon 1) the speed of hiring, 2) the speed of retirements and 3) aircraft deliveries/utilization.
AE Trend Analysis Thread
PS. Credit goes to Fangs for the Data, too.
AE Trend Analysis Thread
PS. Credit goes to Fangs for the Data, too.
Thats when the JR pilots will sneak around. I’m sure that with a bigger AE the WBA would probably be lower than lately. Also, with the mid bid mock, people adjust their bids accordingly.
Honestly, I’ve flown with a lot of FOs hired last year that is better to stay in the right seat for some time. Not saying they are bad pilots, most are super sharp flying, but the very very young guys/gals sometimes lack from the experience gained from older generation of CAs. I’m not saying, be a 10 yr FO, but 3-4 solid years in the right seat will bring a better experience.
So I’m glad upgrade is taking a tad longer than last two years.
10-01-2024, 04:16 PM
#34
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2024
Posts: 16
On the topic of UA&DL, while I intend on taking this upcoming DL class, and am still awaiting the UA date..
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
10-01-2024, 04:24 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 309
On the topic of UA&DL, while I intend on taking this upcoming DL class, and am still awaiting the UA date..
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
10-01-2024, 06:33 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 240
Pilot group size is an irrelevant metric between competing airlines, other than the fact that pilots are expensive. In fact, DL would be happier to fly the same volume/revenue as UA with fewer expensive pilots. This might be considered winning.
That said, market share is absolutely a metric in the thinking. Even at the expense of profitability in some places, market share is key. To feed the market requires airplanes, and airplanes need pilots. Soooo... yea, DL might want to indirectly match pilot group size with UA. But the number of pilots come last in the equation, not first.
Last edited by Verdell; 10-01-2024 at 06:47 PM.
10-02-2024, 05:04 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,977
On the topic of UA&DL, while I intend on taking this upcoming DL class, and am still awaiting the UA date..
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
I did some digging into UA Next growth plan, while very flashy and looks great, do yall think DL would ever truly let UA overshadow it pilot group wise?
So if UA became 20K group, I.E. delta would also become 20K size to match the competition & maintain equivalent market share? Just seems like a common business strat DL would have to do.
DL seems to be quiet about their growth plans outside of >1 year while UA is flashy & publicizes long-term plans.. just can’t imagine DL ever being dwarfed (+/- 1,000 pilots) by United or AA.
Has delta had a “Delta Next” equivalent growth plan in the past I’m unaware of? Or is DL poised for equivalent growth of UA just quiet about it?
10-02-2024, 06:46 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 678
LAX T9 delayed. SFO UA will eventually will add long planned 2nd Asia bank with same gates, moving flights into T2, renovating and adding gates to T1. DEN UA added more gates in B concourse and took over half of the A concourse. IAH UA gates are underutilized and adding more gates. ORD added more int'l gates, UA reconfigured T1 gates for more flexibility, building Satellite 1 concourse, then new T2 and then Satellite 2 concourse over the next decade. AA is shrinking at ORD. IAD is underutilized and approved new 14-gate terminal opening in 2026. EWR just opened new Terminal A and UA replacing regional flight with mainline aircraft even more than they are throughout the system. UA has a lot of underdeveloped domestic hubs and the two best int'l gateways, but 30K is ambitious to say the least.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
