C44 Recall
06-01-2024, 07:05 PM
#71
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
the issues you cite aren’t the big ones for a lot of people such as myself.
-cozy relationship with management
-taking/making bad deals that are harmful to the pilots
-multiple instances of childish and immature behavior
-opposing the C81 recall which those pilots overwhelmingly supported
-EM being AWOL most of the time
among many others. The PMRC is extraneous to these issues IMO
-cozy relationship with management
-taking/making bad deals that are harmful to the pilots
-multiple instances of childish and immature behavior
-opposing the C81 recall which those pilots overwhelmingly supported
-EM being AWOL most of the time
among many others. The PMRC is extraneous to these issues IMO
If C44 recalls everyone....
Who is running?
06-01-2024, 10:33 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 793
I don’t know, the PMRC stuff just doesn’t get me all hot and bothered like it does for some of you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think most of our ALPA people work pretty hard to get things done, even if they aren’t always vocal about it with the pilots. If doing the work that the rest of us aren’t willing to do comes with some perks then good for them. It doesn’t bother me in the least and I’m still happy they’re willing to do it. What does full time ALPA work pay now? 100 hours /month? I’ve earned far more than that many months out of even my first year here.
It's the same type of chicanery that plagues our legislative bodies at every level of government, and which most pilots bemoan. There's a reason it's a 2/3 requirement, but ... rules are for little people.
A5S
06-01-2024, 10:59 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 861
If SK came forward after a hypothetical recall of EM (who has been largely absent) that would be a huge win for pro-pilot advocacy and a potential shift in voting dynamics from C44. And yes there are 4 seats, and of course every step after the recall process is critical. Even though I share with you the worry that most level-headed informed pilots I talk to find the position radioactive, that isn't justification for not recalling a rep that is not advancing the will of the pilots.
06-02-2024, 04:20 AM
#76
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
I'll repeat what CBreezy stated earlier: it's not just that they did it; it's HOW they did it. The MEC didn't have the 2/3 votes required to change the Policy Manual. C44 then changed the definition of pay raise -- or some inside baseball procedure -- such that the pay adjustment only needed a simple majority, but with the same results.
It's the same type of chicanery that plagues our legislative bodies at every level of government, and which most pilots bemoan. There's a reason it's a 2/3 requirement, but ... rules are for little people.
A5S
It's the same type of chicanery that plagues our legislative bodies at every level of government, and which most pilots bemoan. There's a reason it's a 2/3 requirement, but ... rules are for little people.
A5S
Scoop
06-02-2024, 04:56 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
You're starting to show a pattern where you state your newbie position and question the sentiment from people here, with a tone that makes it sound like you are honestly curious why people think differently. Then people give you a list of reasons and you either double down on the first straw man or shift to something else, ignoring the answer to your questions.
If SK came forward after a hypothetical recall of EM (who has been largely absent) that would be a huge win for pro-pilot advocacy and a potential shift in voting dynamics from C44. And yes there are 4 seats, and of course every step after the recall process is critical. Even though I share with you the worry that most level-headed informed pilots I talk to find the position radioactive, that isn't justification for not recalling a rep that is not advancing the will of the pilots.
If SK came forward after a hypothetical recall of EM (who has been largely absent) that would be a huge win for pro-pilot advocacy and a potential shift in voting dynamics from C44. And yes there are 4 seats, and of course every step after the recall process is critical. Even though I share with you the worry that most level-headed informed pilots I talk to find the position radioactive, that isn't justification for not recalling a rep that is not advancing the will of the pilots.
I guess I’m just a little bit of a natural skeptic. The recall in 81 seemed a little surprising to me and that guy didn’t seem all that bad. Though he didn’t do himself any favors with that website in the same way the 44 pilots aren’t doing themselves any favors with the letter they just sent us.
It all just seems odd. We’re enjoying a great contract and the company is capitulating to ALPA on seemingly anything they challenge them on. When I look at things from the “10,000ft view” it just seems like things are good and here we are recalling reps haha. I want good reps, apparently the guys that are in aren’t it. So I’m listening, but I’m trying to rectify what I’m being told with what I’m seeing. And that could just be me being new and not seeing the big picture.
06-02-2024, 05:09 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 1,029
I’m not making any straw man arguments and I’m not ignoring people. The way I learn is by asking questions. I don’t know anything more about this SK guy than I do the current reps.
I guess I’m just a little bit of a natural skeptic. The recall in 81 seemed a little surprising to me and that guy didn’t seem all that bad. Though he didn’t do himself any favors with that website in the same way the 44 pilots aren’t doing themselves any favors with the letter they just sent us.
It all just seems odd. We’re enjoying a great contract and the company is capitulating to ALPA on seemingly anything they challenge them on. When I look at things from the “10,000ft view” it just seems like things are good and here we are recalling reps haha. I want good reps, apparently the guys that are in aren’t it. So I’m listening, but I’m trying to rectify what I’m being told with what I’m seeing. And that could just be me being new and not seeing the big picture.
I guess I’m just a little bit of a natural skeptic. The recall in 81 seemed a little surprising to me and that guy didn’t seem all that bad. Though he didn’t do himself any favors with that website in the same way the 44 pilots aren’t doing themselves any favors with the letter they just sent us.
It all just seems odd. We’re enjoying a great contract and the company is capitulating to ALPA on seemingly anything they challenge them on. When I look at things from the “10,000ft view” it just seems like things are good and here we are recalling reps haha. I want good reps, apparently the guys that are in aren’t it. So I’m listening, but I’m trying to rectify what I’m being told with what I’m seeing. And that could just be me being new and not seeing the big picture.
ALPA and the Company are butting heads far more frequently than before, and Company stances like “it’s not a violation until an arbitrator says it is” are far more aggressive than before.
We are enjoying only part of our good contract because the Company is trying to take items back outside of negotiations.
06-02-2024, 05:13 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
I’m not sure what you’re referring to with the bolded line.
ALPA and the Company are butting heads far more frequently than before, and Company stances like “it’s not a violation until an arbitrator says it is” are far more aggressive than before.
We are enjoying only part of our good contract because the Company is trying to take items back outside of negotiations.
ALPA and the Company are butting heads far more frequently than before, and Company stances like “it’s not a violation until an arbitrator says it is” are far more aggressive than before.
We are enjoying only part of our good contract because the Company is trying to take items back outside of negotiations.
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