CBreezy

The rules were followed by all but national. So, no one's fault at the Delta level.

SideStickMonkey

Yep. National screwed up then National overturned the recall.

Gone Flying

I agree and amended my post.

First Break

Source?

Do you have a copy of the ruling, or are you just repeating what you heard?

ODB2

For the masses,DAs recall failed greater than three to 1. The next one (DDM I think) failed to get a second, the last two didn’t even have a maker.

i fully disagree with the notion that it is too difficult to initiate a recall. It is way too easy. But it is the current process and it was complied with.

CBreezy

No one said it's too difficult to recall a rep. It's certainly not easy, though. How do you figure it's easy? You said yourself that the vote failed 3-1. The process worked as it should have. Even if the recall had passed today, the entire council would still have to vote on it.

myrkridia

Pretty eye-opening experience today. There a many barriers to entry to the whole process of participation, beyond just the specific recall procedure.

- One of the selling points of this profession is being able to disconnect from work when you're off the clock, so we are already selecting for pilots who are active in other areas of life.
- The extra layer of procedures to submit resolutions can be a learning curve that requires motivation to learn.
- Getting resolutions to pass requires coordination before the meeting, and even then the status quo is far more organized so it often depends on regular attendees embracing new ideas.
- The meetings require in person attendance. That in itself is a huge problem given on any given day a significant portion of pilots will be working, and of those who are not many do not live in ATL. Not to mention, IROPs became an additional factor today.
- Only very specific votes can be proxied and limited only to 3. This is another layer of required organization and none of the proxies come into play if an organized group uses Roberts Rules to their advantage and avoid the votes or discussions altogether.
- The tone of the meetings themselves seem to have low tolerance for prolonged discussions or dissent.

The first key moment for me were when the motion to recall DA was put forth the voices against were quick to raise their hand and the voices in favor didn't even match in favor (even though there were a handful of pilots that voted in favor via their ballot). The second was when during the discussion there was a motion to stop debate altogether and switch straight to a vote. Why would anyone want to bother voting for recall of the other reps when the majority in the room didn't even want to have discussion on the matter?

​​​​​ The dissent from the direction of our C44 LEC among pilots I speak with while working or jumpseating or the common sentiment on social media is completely divorced from the sentiment in the room today. I think that has much to do with it being very easy to voice your concern on APC or Facebook but the hurdles to attend a meeting are plenty. ​​​​

CBreezy

Excellent post. The most difficult aspect is being engaged because the system doesn't want us engaged. It takes effort on both the constituents AND the reps. Frankly, sending an email once a month isn't adequate to encourage engagement. And the entire system of in-person no online engagement is the biggest hurdle we have to clear before it's even worth the majority the effort to engage.

myrkridia

It was also disheartening that members in the meeting came to the conclusion that the lack of participation stems from a complete disinterest from the pilot group. Ok... So why is that? We could do better but we seem stuck in the way we do things.

Not to get political (and I won't hold my breath in hoping this doesn't become another left vs right circle jerk) but the national participation rate for US elections fluctuates somewhere between high 30% and 50% (with 2020 being 66% and being the highest participation rate since 1900). Contrast that to our turnout during our last contract cycle, which off the top of my head was around 93%. Our strike vote had high 90s as well. The discussion around the contract that would our livelihood was extremely animated and there was plenty of participation.

It might be unreasonable to expect that level of participation on most issues, but I counted around 80 pilots in the room today out of somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 eligible pilots in C44. That's not an apathy problem, that's a structural problem.

CRJphlyer

-Engage Podcast
-Weekly Newsletter
-Monthly Council Newsletters
-New Field Team thing
-Regular Local Council meetings
-monthly PUBs

…I could go on. There are FAR more regular opportunities for pilots to get involved at Delta than other airlines. What more would you like ALPA to do?