C44 Recall
05-24-2024, 02:17 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,550
More to the point, C44 had a lock on whatever admin jobs they wished to vote themselves, or people they like, into, including MEC Chairman.
Have not been following the vote split, but I think C44 still has a one vote margin.
Don't know enough to have an opinion on how the vote should go, but the C20 defense of 44 spread the fire to Atlanta.
We got a pretty good contract. It may not be the data point this hinges on, but politically, results do matter.
Have not been following the vote split, but I think C44 still has a one vote margin.
Don't know enough to have an opinion on how the vote should go, but the C20 defense of 44 spread the fire to Atlanta.
We got a pretty good contract. It may not be the data point this hinges on, but politically, results do matter.
05-24-2024, 02:20 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 455
It’s being taken care of. But adding more administrative loopholes thinks is going to save his job. It just makes him look like a dick.
05-24-2024, 02:53 PM
#23
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,007
short story. DTW and ATL reps were being unbelievably petty towards the SLC CA rep and anytime he spoke at the last MEC meeting they would take out a physical newspaper and read it until he was done speaking.
longer story. SLC just recalled their FO rep. That rep split from the SLC CA rep and sided with ATL and DTW on quite a few issues including 23m7 and the recent PRMC changes. For those reasons and several others, like his use of APLA travel days for lounge week when he lived locally, he was recalled by a significant margin. DTW put out a comm in the wake of that blaming the CA rep for the recall and saying he split the pilot group. (Even though the recall seemed to be a more grassroots effort by council members). As a protest they did what I described above this last week. their actions were totally devoid of any semblance of professionalism.
The SLC FO rep seemed to be the 9th vote on 9-8 decisions and DTW and ATL seem upset they no longer have that vote
longer story. SLC just recalled their FO rep. That rep split from the SLC CA rep and sided with ATL and DTW on quite a few issues including 23m7 and the recent PRMC changes. For those reasons and several others, like his use of APLA travel days for lounge week when he lived locally, he was recalled by a significant margin. DTW put out a comm in the wake of that blaming the CA rep for the recall and saying he split the pilot group. (Even though the recall seemed to be a more grassroots effort by council members). As a protest they did what I described above this last week. their actions were totally devoid of any semblance of professionalism.
The SLC FO rep seemed to be the 9th vote on 9-8 decisions and DTW and ATL seem upset they no longer have that vote
Thanks. I am familiar with the C-81 recall but didn't know the whole backstory.
Scoop
05-24-2024, 05:22 PM
#24
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,857
Lol, these are grown men doing this? I think I'd prefer the meetings of yore that went to fisticuffs (also childish). If this is true, Alpa really got their clown shoes out for this meeting.
05-24-2024, 07:13 PM
#25
Bent over by buybacks
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 820
If the whole MEC was made up of reps like those in the majority, no way we get this contract. They would have panicked when UAL's Tumi TA came out, and settled for much, much less than we got. Not even the solid negotiating committee could have bailed them out. There would have been no strike vote, and thus no pressure on Bastian compelling him to get on the morning shows in a panic and **** off the mediator by stating that Delta pilots would never be allowed to strike.
Once Ambrosi got elected as ALPA president in October, he got what he wanted and no longer needed to appease the minority; the 99% strike vote was discarded. Next thing you know, there's a TA with some significant shortcomings. And the whole lot got steamrolled by the mediator's threats.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
Last edited by StoneQOLdCrazy; 05-24-2024 at 07:26 PM.
05-24-2024, 09:51 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: DAL 757 FO
Posts: 197
Do you think that good contract was because of C44 or C20 or the C66 FO rep? Hell no. It was because Jason Ambrosi wanted the support of the minority reps to get elected as ALPA national president, and he therefore had to listen to the minority when they wanted to turn up the heat--or risk losing their support and losing the chance for the full support of his own MEC. Which is how we got that idiot DePete last time.
If the whole MEC was made up of reps like those in the majority, no way we get this contract. They would have panicked when UAL's Tumi TA came out, and settled for much, much less than we got. Not even the solid negotiating committee could have bailed them out. There would have been no strike vote, and thus no pressure on Bastian compelling him to get on the morning shows in a panic and **** off the mediator by stating that Delta pilots would never be allowed to strike.
Once Ambrosi got elected as ALPA president in October, he got what he wanted and no longer needed to appease the minority; the 99% strike vote was discarded. Next thing you know, there's a TA with some significant shortcomings. And the whole lot got steamrolled by the mediator's threats.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
If the whole MEC was made up of reps like those in the majority, no way we get this contract. They would have panicked when UAL's Tumi TA came out, and settled for much, much less than we got. Not even the solid negotiating committee could have bailed them out. There would have been no strike vote, and thus no pressure on Bastian compelling him to get on the morning shows in a panic and **** off the mediator by stating that Delta pilots would never be allowed to strike.
Once Ambrosi got elected as ALPA president in October, he got what he wanted and no longer needed to appease the minority; the 99% strike vote was discarded. Next thing you know, there's a TA with some significant shortcomings. And the whole lot got steamrolled by the mediator's threats.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
05-25-2024, 04:00 AM
#27
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,007
Do you think that good contract was because of C44 or C20 or the C66 FO rep? Hell no. It was because Jason Ambrosi wanted the support of the minority reps to get elected as ALPA national president, and he therefore had to listen to the minority when they wanted to turn up the heat--or risk losing their support and losing the chance for the full support of his own MEC. Which is how we got that idiot DePete last time.
If the whole MEC was made up of reps like those in the majority, no way we get this contract. They would have panicked when UAL's Tumi TA came out, and settled for much, much less than we got. Not even the solid negotiating committee could have bailed them out. There would have been no strike vote, and thus no pressure on Bastian compelling him to get on the morning shows in a panic and **** off the mediator by stating that Delta pilots would never be allowed to strike.
Once Ambrosi got elected as ALPA president in October, he got what he wanted and no longer needed to appease the minority; the 99% strike vote was discarded. Next thing you know, there's a TA with some significant shortcomings. And the whole lot got steamrolled by the mediator's threats.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
If the whole MEC was made up of reps like those in the majority, no way we get this contract. They would have panicked when UAL's Tumi TA came out, and settled for much, much less than we got. Not even the solid negotiating committee could have bailed them out. There would have been no strike vote, and thus no pressure on Bastian compelling him to get on the morning shows in a panic and **** off the mediator by stating that Delta pilots would never be allowed to strike.
Once Ambrosi got elected as ALPA president in October, he got what he wanted and no longer needed to appease the minority; the 99% strike vote was discarded. Next thing you know, there's a TA with some significant shortcomings. And the whole lot got steamrolled by the mediator's threats.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
This is a pretty solid analysis except for the fact that since "TA-1" a crappy TA does not necessarily mean a crappy PWA. If the MEC panicked and brought us crap it would have been most likely voted down. The "Tumi" TA was probably doomed from the start no matter what DAL did, and its overwhelming rejection ended up helping all Pilot groups. We should all thank the UAL MEC that brought us that gift.
Scoop
05-25-2024, 05:12 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 888
This is a pretty solid analysis except for the fact that since "TA-1" a crappy TA does not necessarily mean a crappy PWA. If the MEC panicked and brought us crap it would have been most likely voted down. The "Tumi" TA was probably doomed from the start no matter what DAL did, and its overwhelming rejection ended up helping all Pilot groups. We should all thank the UAL MEC that brought us that gift.
Scoop
Scoop
This cycle was weird and had blunders from all sides, and it might have played out very different if Doug Parker (I believe it was him) had been more patient, or Ed had not made the blunder on TV or even if the some of the Railroad Unions had stood their ground on sick leave or some of their basic most contentious issues.
05-25-2024, 05:16 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 888
I remember a few months ago I found myself often disagreeing with you but as of late I wish I had a like button for your posts. And a praise for recovering RJ pilots to boot!
05-25-2024, 08:15 AM
#30
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,046
Do you think that good contract was because of C44 or C20 or the C66 FO rep? Hell no. It was because Jason Ambrosi wanted the support of the minority reps to get elected as ALPA national president, and he therefore had to listen to the minority when they wanted to turn up the heat--or risk losing their support and losing the chance for the full support of his own MEC. Which is how we got that idiot DePete last time.....
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
Since then, the C44 guys have never missed a chance to take the path of least resistance--when they show up. Apparenly one of the reps has been to just one MEC meeting in the last year. Talk about a deadbeat. And let's not forget the raise they gave themselves.
Does C44 want to keep a sociopathic nutjob chairman who despises unionism, talks down to his pilots, and who would use the position to jam through the freedom flyer agenda in the next round of negotiations? Do they want that for the MEC chair? Because that's where he could be next.
I guess we'll find out. His Christmas and Easter e-cards to every single C44 pilot without regard for differing beliefs show how little he cares about buiding unity, and how much he wants to push his personal agenda. And the rest of the c44 reps go along with his nonsense. At least those who show up.
Not sure if the Captain Rep had a legit reason to no-show. Will want to hear his reasons. In any event, if he can not do the job, the job is overly burdensome, or does not want the job, the counsel deserves representation and a viewpoint other than DA's for the reasons you mention.
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