First Break

The funny part is that you pretty much just described the other “best contract” (C2K). It was littered with QOL and Scope concessions, and planted the seeds for an entire generation of pilots who were left to deal with the regional jet outsourcing disaster. But Malone beat UAs C2K pay (which already existed) by a few bucks, so it had that going for it. Which was nice. Until LOA46 a couple years later.

For some reason the pay went away, but the QOL and Scope took almost 2 decades to get back.

Malone is only second to Moak in his ability to gaslight and swindle a willing pilot group. Not a popular opinion with the old timers, but a fresh eye and an objective look at the measurable differences between C2K and C19 is eye opening.

Viper25

Sorry, just to clarify (since I wasn’t here for C2K, but heard it was the GOAT), is it your stance that C19 is objectively much better than C2K?

HelloNewnan

Way to sum it up. POS 96 was indeed a POS, and then what little was left was squandered to make the pay table in C2k. But hey, you could wave your paycheck to your friends and say you were the highest paid by a few bucks, that is, until LOA46. It's a well known game plan, but the people who recalled Malone refined it to a "T".

That said, Malone was semi-effective at what he did, and was at least likable, which is far more than I can say for the TA1 bunch and their cronies. But it's illuninating to know that they ejected Malone the same way as it seems to be going down here. Some kind of shadow group that has their minons posting on SM, and won't even say the name of the person giving them the talking points. The FB conversation was just "yea, I'm posting this because the dude who gave it to me isn't on SM". Sure....

I do know the people who are egging this on would like nothing more than to cash our our hard won gains to boost their pay rates heading out the door. It's kind of an unholy union of the TA1 crowd, who never met a contract item they wouldn't cash out, and the min balance/age 67 people, who just seem to want to burn the world down since they didn't get their way. The coordination is fun to watch, tho. Austin would be proud.

First Break

It probably depends on perspective. Someone in the last years of their career would probably rather have the 60% FAE pension. But anyone with more than 10-15 years remaining is likely objectively better off for a multitude of reasons with C2019. Obviously YMMV and it’s just one guys opinion.

Go section by section and compare. I really think most would be shocked at the things C2K didn’t have, despite conventional wisdom otherwise.

StoneQOLdCrazy

Ah. So the TA1 moakies are behind the C44 recall, with help from the few old guys who pay attention? Folks want to recall their out-of-touch reps, in order to give away QOL gains? That's a bit of a clown take and heavy on consipracy theories.

It completey ignores that the generational demographics here have shifted. No more bo0mers who want to work more and get more cash. It's now more about QOL, work rules, and time off. Of course pay is important. And the pay will always be there--it has to be close between the Top 3 or the laggard(s) will be less successful recruiting. But pay rates aren't the dick measuring contest they used to be.

Maybe, and just try this on for size, a significant number of C44 pilots are tired of getting talked down to by their self-dealing and know-it-all reps. At least the reps that actaully show up. Maybe it's just that simple.

Buck Rogers

That would be about as useful as tits on a boar hog. Section by section, really?

Cause nothing has changed in almost 25 years re the industry?

Back then there was LOT bidding not PBS, age 60 was in force, and there were about 15 legacy/national carriers...can you spell consolidation. It was pre bankruptcy for most legacies.

So let's do some of that Monday morning quarterbacking using todays standard and apply it retroactively to 25 years ago.

Bejeezus, 25 years ago we wen't too far removed from 20/20 vision required at Delta, no nepotism, no jump seat, the 401 company match was mandated to Delta preffered stock and no avenue to sell..... and a college degree was required.

The DOW was 10K, not almost 40K, gold was $300oz not $2300/oz and in 10 years, when BTC arrives, it's .06/BTC not the current 70K/BTC and 2 Dominoes pizzas cost 10,000 BTC.

So what's the point of attempting to use today as a relevant gauge of a contract 25 years ago?

Hindsight is usually 20/20.

CRJphlyer

As a junior pilot with 35 years left I will say that my order of preference:
1) QOL
2) Retirement
3) Pay

What does it matter how much I make if I’m not off work to use it?

HelloNewnan

Because you and I know it's not.

Maybe it is with you, and that's fair. But it's not with the puppetmasters. They need your QOL for their pocketbook.

Assuming you are successful, who will run for all these vacant offices? Yes, there are some smart people out that can spool up, but they're too busy having a life and getting paid to bother with union work.

So no one raises their hands, so I guarantee some of that crowd will pop up saying they're the smartest men in the room, they have experience, and yadda yadda yadda. They'll have some good sounding hangers on, and lots of charts and graphs saying how we should monetize our work rules and profitsharing, and how the pilots are abusing sick leave.

Remember, no proxies at interm elections.... Rumor is that only 7 showed up in SLC. Not hard at all to pack a room with your buds.

First Break

It would help you to look at the quoted question I was responding to.

No argument that an immeasurable number of variables are different today than in 2001. With that said, the “market changed” was a pervasive narrative spread by the TA1 crowd to explain how TA2 was possible. I personally think it’s a weak cop-out to cover up and justify the failed negotiating strategy at Delta that, for nearly 30 years, burned the furniture to heat the house contract after contract.

I am thankful that the Delta pilots finally had enough of that garbage.

ancman

I strongly support recalling the weakest 9 (now 8) members of our MEC, and couldn’t be more diametrically opposed to the groups you listed above.

I think you’ll find that support for the recall spans broadly across all demographics within our pilot group.