C44 Recall
06-03-2024, 05:03 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
I can't believe people arguing that it's unreasonable for me to question anyone not flying the equivalent of a single 3 or 4 day once a month
06-03-2024, 05:13 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
If it bothers you, why not write a resoulution with a minimum floor on flight time for ALPA volunteers? Seems like a logical path for what ails you.
06-03-2024, 05:19 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 426
Seems like a big assumption on your part. Especially when votes are split 9-8. 50% are gonna think someone is outta touch.
If it bothers you, why not write a resoulution with a minimum floor on flight time for ALPA volunteers? Seems like a logical path for what ails you.
If it bothers you, why not write a resoulution with a minimum floor on flight time for ALPA volunteers? Seems like a logical path for what ails you.
And dont worry, such a resolution is already being written and will be presented soon.
06-03-2024, 05:35 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 710
[QUOTE=ODB2;3808033]
Yes, they read newspapers in a manner of a stubborn 6 year old child when someone they disagreed with politically was addressing the room. I’ve seen the pictures. It was pathetic.
I don’t know what minimum flight hours should be flown for ALPA reps, but there is a common sense point where the number of hours is too low. There has to be some flying, on top of all the other ALPA work, to not be disconnected from the line pilots. Flying 90 hours in a year is not gonna cut it to get the pulse of your constituents and issues on the line.
C44 has always been sympathetic to management and has had the naive perspective that we can all just get along. Management loathes the pilot group and no matter how many olive branches we extend, they will still oppose us, often aggressively. C44’s philosophy has led to fumbling on several issues, most recently the 23M7 fiasco. While I agree something needed to be done, the quid and the quo were not even and C44 thinks it was totally fine. Management knows they got a great deal out of it, and now we’ve seen the most aggressive anti-contract behavior in a long time.
-Pay audits
-CNO fiasco
-Good Faith Basis calls off the charts
-the completely egregious PB/PR problems
-taking pilots pay *without notification*
-schedulers being allowed to do what they want and the contract be damned
…and all of that is off the top of my head.
This is possible because naive-at-best and management-sympathetic-at-worst ALPA reps like those in C44 enable it (especially C44 due to its size and location). It’s high time to clean house and get representation that understands management needs to be stood up to and deterred, rather than viewed as an equal partner and cooperator. Because management will NEVER have that view of us.
The C81 F/O rep recall was successful because his voting record and professional behavior did not align with the overwhelming majority of the voting members' standards of stewardship. It seems as though each C44 rep has a voting record on 23.M.7. and the disingenuous self-appointed pay raise that matches the former C81 F/O rep. This, alone, should put each one up for recall.
The person I am hearing, and at this point would likely support, as the number one candidate for a future rep also supported 23.M.7. Was this the way I would have liked to see that situation solved, maybe not but I don't know if I could have negotiated something better. I think it is a little better than where we were if we get the full automated report. How much do you think the reps/volunteers should make per day? Should they cap out at 72 hours? What do you base that on? You would have to pay me at least double (10:30/day, no cap) and I still don't think I'd do it. You may be different and that's cool. Throw your hat in the ring or find someone that will represent you well for what they pay now. Do you know what the new pay for them was based on?
How about professional behavior? Do any of the ATL reps use ALPA travel days when they live within driving distance to ATL? Do any of them expense gucci parking to ALPA? How long does each rep go between flying? Is it close to 70 days? 60 days? 30 days? How is their behavior during MEC meetings? Do any of the reps read a newspaper during MEC meetings?
Who pays the travel day? Do we all get paid guarantee on a DH only whether we deviate early/late or not? Can they not use their rules the way we all use the PWA, especially on the company's dime? Are you allowed to park in the employee lot if you are not on company duty? Not sure if there is an exception for ALPA work but I can't park there unless I am going to fly. I'd rather my reps work more on ALPA stuff than flying the line. If they are flying once a month or so I am fine. Others may disagree and I am fine with that. Them getting 30 hours a month or some arbitrary minimum just doesn't seem to improve my life in any way I can see. I have heard these newspaper rumors, but don't know anything factual. Where is that coming from? Was it provoked (assuming true)? I'd expect better behavior but would like to know the full circumstances before I pass judgement. I may end up agreeing with you on that one, but I also know it usually takes two to tango.
The person I am hearing, and at this point would likely support, as the number one candidate for a future rep also supported 23.M.7. Was this the way I would have liked to see that situation solved, maybe not but I don't know if I could have negotiated something better. I think it is a little better than where we were if we get the full automated report. How much do you think the reps/volunteers should make per day? Should they cap out at 72 hours? What do you base that on? You would have to pay me at least double (10:30/day, no cap) and I still don't think I'd do it. You may be different and that's cool. Throw your hat in the ring or find someone that will represent you well for what they pay now. Do you know what the new pay for them was based on?
How about professional behavior? Do any of the ATL reps use ALPA travel days when they live within driving distance to ATL? Do any of them expense gucci parking to ALPA? How long does each rep go between flying? Is it close to 70 days? 60 days? 30 days? How is their behavior during MEC meetings? Do any of the reps read a newspaper during MEC meetings?
Who pays the travel day? Do we all get paid guarantee on a DH only whether we deviate early/late or not? Can they not use their rules the way we all use the PWA, especially on the company's dime? Are you allowed to park in the employee lot if you are not on company duty? Not sure if there is an exception for ALPA work but I can't park there unless I am going to fly. I'd rather my reps work more on ALPA stuff than flying the line. If they are flying once a month or so I am fine. Others may disagree and I am fine with that. Them getting 30 hours a month or some arbitrary minimum just doesn't seem to improve my life in any way I can see. I have heard these newspaper rumors, but don't know anything factual. Where is that coming from? Was it provoked (assuming true)? I'd expect better behavior but would like to know the full circumstances before I pass judgement. I may end up agreeing with you on that one, but I also know it usually takes two to tango.
I don’t know what minimum flight hours should be flown for ALPA reps, but there is a common sense point where the number of hours is too low. There has to be some flying, on top of all the other ALPA work, to not be disconnected from the line pilots. Flying 90 hours in a year is not gonna cut it to get the pulse of your constituents and issues on the line.
C44 has always been sympathetic to management and has had the naive perspective that we can all just get along. Management loathes the pilot group and no matter how many olive branches we extend, they will still oppose us, often aggressively. C44’s philosophy has led to fumbling on several issues, most recently the 23M7 fiasco. While I agree something needed to be done, the quid and the quo were not even and C44 thinks it was totally fine. Management knows they got a great deal out of it, and now we’ve seen the most aggressive anti-contract behavior in a long time.
-Pay audits
-CNO fiasco
-Good Faith Basis calls off the charts
-the completely egregious PB/PR problems
-taking pilots pay *without notification*
-schedulers being allowed to do what they want and the contract be damned
…and all of that is off the top of my head.
This is possible because naive-at-best and management-sympathetic-at-worst ALPA reps like those in C44 enable it (especially C44 due to its size and location). It’s high time to clean house and get representation that understands management needs to be stood up to and deterred, rather than viewed as an equal partner and cooperator. Because management will NEVER have that view of us.
06-03-2024, 05:55 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 208
Just an observation…
CBreezy and Fangs have generally been supportive of the direction of ALPA over the last several years, and I’ve always thought they both had level headed takes on things.
This changed recently, seemingly coincident with the changeover in the scheduling department, and/or the dissolution of the ACE contract.
Anyone else wondering why?
CBreezy and Fangs have generally been supportive of the direction of ALPA over the last several years, and I’ve always thought they both had level headed takes on things.
This changed recently, seemingly coincident with the changeover in the scheduling department, and/or the dissolution of the ACE contract.
Anyone else wondering why?
06-03-2024, 06:06 AM
#147
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 2,235
[QUOTE=Viper25;3808086]
Yes, they read newspapers in a manner of a stubborn 6 year old child when someone they disagreed with politically was addressing the room. I’ve seen the pictures. It was pathetic.
I don’t know what minimum flight hours should be flown for ALPA reps, but there is a common sense point where the number of hours is too low. There has to be some flying, on top of all the other ALPA work, to not be disconnected from the line pilots. Flying 90 hours in a year is not gonna cut it to get the pulse of your constituents and issues on the line.
C44 has always been sympathetic to management and has had the naive perspective that we can all just get along. Management loathes the pilot group and no matter how many olive branches we extend, they will still oppose us, often aggressively. C44’s philosophy has led to fumbling on several issues, most recently the 23M7 fiasco. While I agree something needed to be done, the quid and the quo were not even and C44 thinks it was totally fine. Management knows they got a great deal out of it, and now we’ve seen the most aggressive anti-contract behavior in a long time.
-Pay audits
-CNO fiasco
-Good Faith Basis calls off the charts
-the completely egregious PB/PR problems
-taking pilots pay *without notification*
-schedulers being allowed to do what they want and the contract be damned
…and all of that is off the top of my head.
This is possible because naive-at-best and management-sympathetic-at-worst ALPA reps like those in C44 enable it (especially C44 due to its size and location). It’s high time to clean house and get representation that understands management needs to be stood up to and deterred, rather than viewed as an equal partner and cooperator. Because management will NEVER have that view of us.
I agree that the 23m7 was a joke, and there are tons of other things going on that are bad. I have no idea the conversations that are going on, but I hope the union is trying to fix it. And that does take some sort of cooperation between parties involved.
It does seem, though, that most people that come on here and bash 44 are the same people that their reps love to just scream no at everything. NYC had one rep spearhead a recall because the rep didn’t vote for him for MEC. LAX stomped its feet and complained that it didn’t get a fair share of Europe flying while telling everyone they OWNED Hawaii.
In my experience there’s childish aspects of everyone, especially in politics, just see Congress et all. I’m not defending the 44 reps, and IMO more than one needs to go, but dang.
Oh! And if you are going to set min hours for reps, you need to do it for every pilot. And I bet you **** some people off with that that aren’t reps.
Yes, they read newspapers in a manner of a stubborn 6 year old child when someone they disagreed with politically was addressing the room. I’ve seen the pictures. It was pathetic.
I don’t know what minimum flight hours should be flown for ALPA reps, but there is a common sense point where the number of hours is too low. There has to be some flying, on top of all the other ALPA work, to not be disconnected from the line pilots. Flying 90 hours in a year is not gonna cut it to get the pulse of your constituents and issues on the line.
C44 has always been sympathetic to management and has had the naive perspective that we can all just get along. Management loathes the pilot group and no matter how many olive branches we extend, they will still oppose us, often aggressively. C44’s philosophy has led to fumbling on several issues, most recently the 23M7 fiasco. While I agree something needed to be done, the quid and the quo were not even and C44 thinks it was totally fine. Management knows they got a great deal out of it, and now we’ve seen the most aggressive anti-contract behavior in a long time.
-Pay audits
-CNO fiasco
-Good Faith Basis calls off the charts
-the completely egregious PB/PR problems
-taking pilots pay *without notification*
-schedulers being allowed to do what they want and the contract be damned
…and all of that is off the top of my head.
This is possible because naive-at-best and management-sympathetic-at-worst ALPA reps like those in C44 enable it (especially C44 due to its size and location). It’s high time to clean house and get representation that understands management needs to be stood up to and deterred, rather than viewed as an equal partner and cooperator. Because management will NEVER have that view of us.
It does seem, though, that most people that come on here and bash 44 are the same people that their reps love to just scream no at everything. NYC had one rep spearhead a recall because the rep didn’t vote for him for MEC. LAX stomped its feet and complained that it didn’t get a fair share of Europe flying while telling everyone they OWNED Hawaii.
In my experience there’s childish aspects of everyone, especially in politics, just see Congress et all. I’m not defending the 44 reps, and IMO more than one needs to go, but dang.
Oh! And if you are going to set min hours for reps, you need to do it for every pilot. And I bet you **** some people off with that that aren’t reps.
06-03-2024, 06:32 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 710
[QUOTE=Whoopsmybad;3808096]
I agree that the fervent no screamers aren’t any better and the NYC shenanigans were ridiculous.
Im not even in favor of advocating a hard minimum number of hours for reps to fly, but reps should be viewed negatively and skeptically when they reach an obviously low level. There is a reason SLIs must have a minimum number of fly months and credit hours each year, and it’s not just to support staffing the operation. It’s the same reason that DGS instructors have to jumpseat every year: too much time away from the operation and you lose touch. The same mentality should apply to reps as it does to SLIs and DGS.
I agree that the 23m7 was a joke, and there are tons of other things going on that are bad. I have no idea the conversations that are going on, but I hope the union is trying to fix it. And that does take some sort of cooperation between parties involved.
It does seem, though, that most people that come on here and bash 44 are the same people that their reps love to just scream no at everything. NYC had one rep spearhead a recall because the rep didn’t vote for him for MEC. LAX stomped its feet and complained that it didn’t get a fair share of Europe flying while telling everyone they OWNED Hawaii.
In my experience there’s childish aspects of everyone, especially in politics, just see Congress et all. I’m not defending the 44 reps, and IMO more than one needs to go, but dang.
Oh! And if you are going to set min hours for reps, you need to do it for every pilot. And I bet you **** some people off with that that aren’t reps.
It does seem, though, that most people that come on here and bash 44 are the same people that their reps love to just scream no at everything. NYC had one rep spearhead a recall because the rep didn’t vote for him for MEC. LAX stomped its feet and complained that it didn’t get a fair share of Europe flying while telling everyone they OWNED Hawaii.
In my experience there’s childish aspects of everyone, especially in politics, just see Congress et all. I’m not defending the 44 reps, and IMO more than one needs to go, but dang.
Oh! And if you are going to set min hours for reps, you need to do it for every pilot. And I bet you **** some people off with that that aren’t reps.
Im not even in favor of advocating a hard minimum number of hours for reps to fly, but reps should be viewed negatively and skeptically when they reach an obviously low level. There is a reason SLIs must have a minimum number of fly months and credit hours each year, and it’s not just to support staffing the operation. It’s the same reason that DGS instructors have to jumpseat every year: too much time away from the operation and you lose touch. The same mentality should apply to reps as it does to SLIs and DGS.
06-03-2024, 06:51 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 133
Out of touch how? Obvious in what way? Do you expect them to call you? When I have called them, they are easy to reach, understand what is going on and even when they have disagreed with my position they had a reasonable answer, often times they were getting more feedback from pilots on the other side. I get that; there are 4499 pilots in 44 that may have a different opinion than me. If you haven't called them, I don't put much weight in a vague accusation of being out of touch.
06-03-2024, 06:53 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 133
Have you looked at all 17 reps flying history, or just the ones you disagree with? Is this a consistent concern across the board or just trying to find something to pile on with? Again, I hope all the reps are NOT flying anywhere near guarantee, but I do think they should fly some, and I'll double down that I would like them to sit reserve a couple months a year too.
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