67 is dead,
05-11-2024, 06:21 PM
#731
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,566
yup, we had 2 LOAs, 20-03 consisted of allowing entirely voluntary staffing changes in exchange for 220 pilots not to get furloughed. that passed by the skin of its teeth (51% to 49%IIRC)
LOA 20-04 had numerous gains for the pilot group with no real downside unless you like having high time, straight pay lines awarded in PBS, and 1 in 4 pilots voted against that. It seems many of the no voters gripes centered around the fact that it gave a lifeboat to those about to get furloughed.
LOA 20-04 had numerous gains for the pilot group with no real downside unless you like having high time, straight pay lines awarded in PBS, and 1 in 4 pilots voted against that. It seems many of the no voters gripes centered around the fact that it gave a lifeboat to those about to get furloughed.
05-11-2024, 06:21 PM
#732
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,319
Assuming older pilots are uniformly well off and “looking for extra” is a huge assumption. Go fly the “grey zone” of global and U.S. aviation for a few years.
Everyone who borrows $100k for training or leaves their military cush job early for the private sector big bucks (leaving a federal annual COLA adjusted retirement plan on the table) should understand there are no guarantees.
Furloughs happen. Carriers fail. Pensions disappear. Staple-mergers are mediated. Medical-outs happen early. Marriages implode.
That’s it. That’s the job. It’s a casino; no one has any realistic alternative suggestion for private sector airlines.
Maybe young pilots deserve more, but the reality is the young have a priceless asset the old ones don’t: time.
Even a 40 year old can retrain to another profession. After 50, you’re pretty much locked in…cognitively and professionally.
(FWIW, I’m ready to go at 60, 57 in a pinch. All things considered.)
Everyone who borrows $100k for training or leaves their military cush job early for the private sector big bucks (leaving a federal annual COLA adjusted retirement plan on the table) should understand there are no guarantees.
Furloughs happen. Carriers fail. Pensions disappear. Staple-mergers are mediated. Medical-outs happen early. Marriages implode.
That’s it. That’s the job. It’s a casino; no one has any realistic alternative suggestion for private sector airlines.
Maybe young pilots deserve more, but the reality is the young have a priceless asset the old ones don’t: time.
Even a 40 year old can retrain to another profession. After 50, you’re pretty much locked in…cognitively and professionally.
(FWIW, I’m ready to go at 60, 57 in a pinch. All things considered.)
05-11-2024, 07:02 PM
#734
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 204
Assuming older pilots are uniformly well off and “looking for extra” is a huge assumption. Go fly the “grey zone” of global and U.S. aviation for a few years.
Everyone who borrows $100k for training or leaves their military cush job early for the private sector big bucks (leaving a federal annual COLA adjusted retirement plan on the table) should understand there are no guarantees.
Furloughs happen. Carriers fail. Pensions disappear. Staple-mergers are mediated. Medical-outs happen early. Marriages implode.
That’s it. That’s the job. It’s a casino; no one has any realistic alternative suggestion for private sector airlines.
Maybe young pilots deserve more, but the reality is the young have a priceless asset the old ones don’t: time.
Even a 40 year old can retrain to another profession. After 50, you’re pretty much locked in…cognitively and professionally.
(FWIW, I’m ready to go at 60, 57 in a pinch. All things considered.)
Everyone who borrows $100k for training or leaves their military cush job early for the private sector big bucks (leaving a federal annual COLA adjusted retirement plan on the table) should understand there are no guarantees.
Furloughs happen. Carriers fail. Pensions disappear. Staple-mergers are mediated. Medical-outs happen early. Marriages implode.
That’s it. That’s the job. It’s a casino; no one has any realistic alternative suggestion for private sector airlines.
Maybe young pilots deserve more, but the reality is the young have a priceless asset the old ones don’t: time.
Even a 40 year old can retrain to another profession. After 50, you’re pretty much locked in…cognitively and professionally.
(FWIW, I’m ready to go at 60, 57 in a pinch. All things considered.)
05-11-2024, 08:40 PM
#735
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
How do you know anything about anyone being “well off”? I have a senior buddy who’s health care expenses for his teenage some are almost 10k a month. He lives almost paycheck to paycheck sometimes. Flew with a junior person whose spouse was CEO of a construction conglomerate and flies for “fun”. Sorry, we just look at things differently. Have fun with the quips though, you guys are the best!
I have lots of questions.
05-12-2024, 03:32 AM
#738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
I have two friends in similar situations. It's easy in the US to get wiped out by medical costs even when insured. It's especially true if you want a child with a life threatening illness to survive. I suspect in your post the friends costs were for drugs not allowed by the insurance.
05-12-2024, 04:01 AM
#739
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,014
It’s cool how you cherry pick outlier cases. If you’re being intellectually honest, you know that *in general* senior pilots are more well-off, and that the financial situation (and career stability) of junior pilots is much more delicate, relatively speaking. I also suppose that junior pilots don’t have family medical issues and senior pilots don’t marry rich.
Again, you make an equivalence between people who would lose their job, with people who won’t end up making some extra. Truly incredible.
Cool one-off anecdotes though. Very sound logic.
Again, you make an equivalence between people who would lose their job, with people who won’t end up making some extra. Truly incredible.
Cool one-off anecdotes though. Very sound logic.
You bring up a very good point - outliers. Realize that most of old guys arguing that the young guys are entitled and clueless about the industry, and most of the young guys who think senior pilots are basically Mr Burns (Simpsons) come to life - are in fact outliers yourselves. Out on the line everyone seems to get along fine and enjoy each others company.
Sure there are exceptions - but these are just that - exceptions. I have been a NB A flying with brand new hires, mostly all great Pilots and good guys and I now yank gear for the oldest amongst us, once again mostly all great folks. I have had my patience tried with both groups but I do realize they are not the norm. Social media tends to highlight outliers so lets all keep that in mind.
Scoop
PS - Don't forget to call your Mom today.
05-12-2024, 05:00 AM
#740
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 745
You bring up a very good point - outliers. Realize that most of old guys arguing that the young guys are entitled and clueless about the industry, and most of the young guys who think senior pilots are basically Mr Burns (Simpsons) come to life - are in fact outliers yourselves. Out on the line everyone seems to get along fine and enjoy each others company.
Sure there are exceptions - but these are just that - exceptions. I have been a NB A flying with brand new hires, mostly all great Pilots and good guys and I now yank gear for the oldest amongst us, once again mostly all great folks. I have had my patience tried with both groups but I do realize they are not the norm. Social media tends to highlight outliers so lets all keep that in mind.
Scoop
PS - Don't forget to call your Mom today.
Sure there are exceptions - but these are just that - exceptions. I have been a NB A flying with brand new hires, mostly all great Pilots and good guys and I now yank gear for the oldest amongst us, once again mostly all great folks. I have had my patience tried with both groups but I do realize they are not the norm. Social media tends to highlight outliers so lets all keep that in mind.
Scoop
PS - Don't forget to call your Mom today.
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