67 is dead,
02-25-2024, 07:39 PM
#401
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
I know this has been covered quite a bit, but honestly it never really quite sank in.
However, I just had an experience with a DAL pilot who had 35+ years employed at DAL as a pilot. No furloughs. Retired as a multi-year WB LCA. Yet, he felt as though DALPA stabbed him in the back for not getting two more years at the top of the pay scale. Come again?
This was my first personal experience with someone who holds this view. The selfishness is mind boggling. I do believe that most pilots have an edge of selfishness, myself included; however, this was a level of self-centeredness which would be unbelievable had I not heard the thought process.
I am incredibly grateful age 67 did not pass at this moment, and I greatly hope, it continues to be defeated until far after my retirement unless it is passed with a scientific and rational argument to the betterment of all.
However, I just had an experience with a DAL pilot who had 35+ years employed at DAL as a pilot. No furloughs. Retired as a multi-year WB LCA. Yet, he felt as though DALPA stabbed him in the back for not getting two more years at the top of the pay scale. Come again?
This was my first personal experience with someone who holds this view. The selfishness is mind boggling. I do believe that most pilots have an edge of selfishness, myself included; however, this was a level of self-centeredness which would be unbelievable had I not heard the thought process.
I am incredibly grateful age 67 did not pass at this moment, and I greatly hope, it continues to be defeated until far after my retirement unless it is passed with a scientific and rational argument to the betterment of all.
02-25-2024, 08:52 PM
#402
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,049
Ours is set up as "insurance" allowing us to get tax free LTD disbursements as I understand it. Since we have no earned taxable income we can't get B/C funds either from my understanding. That's why it's an additional payment going into the MBCP. At the moment everything with the MBCP is a guess. ALPA is telling us 2025 is when it'll be active and hopefully IRS approved. In one of the Retirement briefs I've watched online it does say at 59.5 we will be able to sweep MBCP funds into our 401k but it doesn't appear we can do much before that.
02-26-2024, 03:26 AM
#404
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,012
Awww, poor guy. With the price of milk and bread right now I hope he doesn’t end up on the street in retirement. And I feel his pain. ALPA is continually stabbing me in the back by letting folks fly all the way to 65. They should be fighting to bring 60 back because I know dozens of us are fighting for that - and we pay our dues just like everyone else!
02-26-2024, 07:42 AM
#406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
I think you make good points and have offered a different perspective. You are right, we never know their number, but I know this cost increase would be accounted for in it.
If it passes, they may be open about the cost increase in negotiations. Or, it becomes another line on a spreadsheet we will never see for something most people didn’t really want. We may never know how it impacts us.
If it passes, they may be open about the cost increase in negotiations. Or, it becomes another line on a spreadsheet we will never see for something most people didn’t really want. We may never know how it impacts us.
What is in the water down there in Bug Tussle? As profit grows, so does the pie. Moakism worked when profit was low but walking into the room and asking the company what they would really want is a total fail. Why won’t this mindset die?
The union good old boys club is dead. That got flushed in 2015. Why don’t they get that in Atlanta? Don’t they understand that having a backbone improves the results.
Last edited by cornbeef007; 02-26-2024 at 07:52 AM.
02-26-2024, 10:09 AM
#407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 427
Were you here during contract 2015? That’s exactly the mindset that led to a failed TA. Anderson said the pie is only so big but we went ahead and we used the TA as toilet paper. The pie definitely got bigger but we still had guys saying we lost money because of the time value of money. Definitely a hardcore Deltoid mindset.
What is in the water down there in Bug Tussle? As profit grows, so does the pie. Moakism worked when profit was low but walking into the room and asking the company what they would really want is a total fail. Why won’t this mindset die?
The union good old boys club is dead. That got flushed in 2015. Why don’t they get that in Atlanta? Don’t they understand that having a backbone improves the results.
What is in the water down there in Bug Tussle? As profit grows, so does the pie. Moakism worked when profit was low but walking into the room and asking the company what they would really want is a total fail. Why won’t this mindset die?
The union good old boys club is dead. That got flushed in 2015. Why don’t they get that in Atlanta? Don’t they understand that having a backbone improves the results.
Are you one of those guys that brags about how you took the dealership to the cleaners?
Once every few years, you out negotiated the people that do it daily?
Another mindset is that holding our breath and stomping our feet longer will result in more. Tough guys vote “No”. I’m sure management shook in their boots anytime they saw a DPA tag.
In reality, the car dealership (and the company), have an amount. Believe it or not, the pie is not infinite. We don’t know how close we get, but as you inch closer to that amount it gets harder and harder.
I just hate to see us starting closer to that amount over something most people don’t want.
If they are willing to squabble with individual pilots over reroute pay, I’m sure they will take into account the milllions in LTD costs. Somehow or someway it is accounted for.
Or maybe it just comes out of the trillions Delta doesn’t worry about.
oh..and yes I was and I opposed
TA1.
02-26-2024, 04:20 PM
#408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
Are you one of those guys that brags about how you took the dealership to the cleaners?
Once every few years, you out negotiated the people that do it daily?
Another mindset is that holding our breath and stomping our feet longer will result in more. Tough guys vote “No”. I’m sure management shook in their boots anytime they saw a DPA tag.
In reality, the car dealership (and the company), have an amount. Believe it or not, the pie is not infinite. We don’t know how close we get, but as you inch closer to that amount it gets harder and harder.
I just hate to see us starting closer to that amount over something most people don’t want.
If they are willing to squabble with individual pilots over reroute pay, I’m sure they will take into account the milllions in LTD costs. Somehow or someway it is accounted for.
Or maybe it just comes out of the trillions Delta doesn’t worry about.
oh..and yes I was and I opposed
TA1.
Once every few years, you out negotiated the people that do it daily?
Another mindset is that holding our breath and stomping our feet longer will result in more. Tough guys vote “No”. I’m sure management shook in their boots anytime they saw a DPA tag.
In reality, the car dealership (and the company), have an amount. Believe it or not, the pie is not infinite. We don’t know how close we get, but as you inch closer to that amount it gets harder and harder.
I just hate to see us starting closer to that amount over something most people don’t want.
If they are willing to squabble with individual pilots over reroute pay, I’m sure they will take into account the milllions in LTD costs. Somehow or someway it is accounted for.
Or maybe it just comes out of the trillions Delta doesn’t worry about.
oh..and yes I was and I opposed
TA1.
Ed made a cataclysmic screwup after the 2012 contract. A week after it was signed, he was on Wall Street touting that the new contract was cost neutral. This was the last contract that utilized constructive collaboration, which is a fancy term for showing up and asking the company what they wanted. We had a good contract before 2012, however we paid for that by selling the pension.
The last two contract cycles we have stomped and held our breath. We have led the industry for 10 years, thanks in part by United taking a similar approach.
Is this the approach we should use for all negotiations, absolutely not.
I guess we will see how the union moves forward, if this dumpster fire actually materializes.
02-26-2024, 07:09 PM
#409
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Anderson and the team he hired ****ed up on on out of the money fuel hedges.
Anderson tried to get back to even.
Anderson got fired by the Board (everyone has a boss)
Anderson is among the smartest people I've ever met.
The best true blue union leader I've ever met belived Anderson.
Anderson had not been wrong before.
Thank God for Malone. PASSED WITH 82% in favor.
We fired Malone a week later.
Folks lied about TA1.
Same folks did a great job getting to C19.
I'm thankful for C16 & C19. Thankful for the political enemys that got it done.
I'm a has been. Nice to just fly Delta Jets.
Anderson tried to get back to even.
Anderson got fired by the Board (everyone has a boss)
Anderson is among the smartest people I've ever met.
The best true blue union leader I've ever met belived Anderson.
Anderson had not been wrong before.
Thank God for Malone. PASSED WITH 82% in favor.
We fired Malone a week later.
Folks lied about TA1.
Same folks did a great job getting to C19.
I'm thankful for C16 & C19. Thankful for the political enemys that got it done.
I'm a has been. Nice to just fly Delta Jets.
02-27-2024, 05:08 AM
#410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
I don’t bargain at the car dealership. I just roll up and write a check. The value of a car is pretty finite.
Ed made a cataclysmic screwup after the 2012 contract. A week after it was signed, he was on Wall Street touting that the new contract was cost neutral. This was the last contract that utilized constructive collaboration, which is a fancy term for showing up and asking the company what they wanted. We had a good contract before 2012, however we paid for that by selling the pension.
The last two contract cycles we have stomped and held our breath. We have led the industry for 10 years, thanks in part by United taking a similar approach.
Is this the approach we should use for all negotiations, absolutely not.
I guess we will see how the union moves forward, if this dumpster fire actually materializes.
Ed made a cataclysmic screwup after the 2012 contract. A week after it was signed, he was on Wall Street touting that the new contract was cost neutral. This was the last contract that utilized constructive collaboration, which is a fancy term for showing up and asking the company what they wanted. We had a good contract before 2012, however we paid for that by selling the pension.
The last two contract cycles we have stomped and held our breath. We have led the industry for 10 years, thanks in part by United taking a similar approach.
Is this the approach we should use for all negotiations, absolutely not.
I guess we will see how the union moves forward, if this dumpster fire actually materializes.
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