StoneQOLdCrazy

Yes, a Comair FO told me around that time that he expected to go from the right seat of a CRJ to the right seat of a 767 because he would get DOH in the merger that was going to be announced "any day."

180ToAJ

The company doesn’t just absorb cost and forget about it. They track everything. They will have to absorb the cost this cycle, but it will be accounted for in the next contract cycle and future ones to come. Whether they come out and say it or not, I don’t know. I know they have that number to the penny.
I think we both agree LTD is one of the most priceless provisions in our contract. It is the best in the industry. I don’t want any reason to ever reduce it.
An increase in retirement age increases LTD cost. The company will have to absorb that cost initially. We will have short term leverage for some relief on a few contract items. They will account for LTD cost increase in future negotiations either by trying to modify LTD or reducing other gains. We will pay for it somehow. The majority don’t want an increase in retirement age. These pilots will be the ones paying for it.

I think saying it is a win is short sighted.

Bucking Bar

... and why shouldn't they?

The ASA pilots actually had their own code and flew non-permitted aircraft. ALPA should have set a policy implementation date for a merger. Delta would have avoided the whole 15 year outsourcing mess, never furloughed a pilot and maybe could have avoided bankruptcy.

Instead, the results were >$25 billion spent on a failed McKinsey& Co outsourcing experiment, 1,000+ Delta pilots furloughed and the loss of more than 5,000 ALPA members' jobs.

The DOH tale is an often repeated lie to justify the really nasty things the Delta pilots did to their own.You and I know ALPA merger policy was status quo based on aircraft gauge, paycheck and longevity. Delta's smallest jet was 142 seats. Comair's largest was 50. The fact 142>50 isn't hard math. Comair (and ASA's) proposal was as follows:

1. Merge ASA and Comair by Date of Hire
2. Staple the ASA & Comair to the bottom of the DAL list
3. Assign a system seniority number
4. Allow a regulated number of DCI pilots to use their system seniority #'2 to bid into DAL equipment when they could hold it
5. Delta pilots would have complete flush down rights to left seat (the most senior) DCI positions if they wanted or needed them

Chuck Giambusso, as Delta MEC Chairman objected, stating this proposal would make Delta less desireable to people in his squadron. Bob Arnold asked Giambusso if he was present to represent pilots who had not even applied to Delta over ALPA members currently flying Delta passengers.

The disunity went far beyond the cost of Delta's bankruptcy, that I think might could have been avoided if the company had not spend $18,000,000.00+ each on RJ's that didn't have very good performance on any basis (CASM, or load carrying ability). Best I can figure, Leo and Fred spent just under $30 billion on what was 740+ jets and their operators. At one point it was bigger than Delta domestic, more flights, more jets and greater capacity. It was an entire airline inside an airline.

Bucking Bar

His own MEC Chairman told him:

"By equipment gauge, paycheck and longevity, this is a staple"

Gunfighter

You are absolutely correct. The biggest proponents of age 67 won't be here for subsequent cycles. This is a one time windfall at the expense of the bottom of the list. Lots of us are still paying for age 65 with NBA/WBB seniority, instead of earning that sweet WBA pay.

Verdell

I do wonder what DPMA has come up with in regards to what it would cost the program with age 67. While it's a shorter max term than LTD, surely it would have a significant impact on the cost to the program.

Bucking Bar

... and those who demand to come back at their old seniority.

sailingfun

There will be the exact same number of proponents for age 67. They will just be the new old guys and it will repeat every contract cycle. 35 years of listening to pilots. 98% will want what is in their best interest.

OOfff

being a leader and example to others often involves doing what’s right, not what’s best for oneself

FangsF15

Our LTD plan has now essentially been made standard at all the big 4, most recently SWA. I don’t see that changing, or even realistic pressure being put on us to change it.

If it is ever an ‘issue’ in negotiations, I don’t think we will ever know. The company isn’t going to share their top line number with us. I just don’t see it as the boogeyman you do. As a result, I don’t see LTD ‘costs’ as a good counter argument to 67. It’s okay to disagree.