Red Swingline

I’m sure it’s pure coincidence that the most prolific poster on chit chat, by a factor of 2, with over 50k posts under his name, also spells it ALpA. He retired last year as a NB CA. Parody account indeed. Don’t feed the troll.

Bucking Bar

The pilots pushing age 67 were the exact pilots who "leveraged scope" and held scope sales, literally trading other members' jobs for "bargaining credits" in bankruptcy. At the very same time they were ****ting on pilots who they excluded.

Thousands of their own ranks lost their jobs; they didn't care. They literally traded $$ using the careers of junior Delta pilots and those at the regional air carriers. Thousands of other pilots who were excluded from having a voice in the matter. They were never good ALPA members and today they are anti-ALPA.** They refuse to use any internal remedies to direct ALPA (ironic given that they wrote this governance structure).

I do not know whether age 67 is safe. I agree with the notion of studying it like we do anything that affects the safety of our members.

Gspeed

You new around here? Try to keep up junior.

Meme In Command

Theyre indoor cats. They spend all day within the safety of the house, looking out the window at management and acting like they could take them on in a fight. Meanwhile ALPA is the one giving them fresh food and water and cleaning the litter while they stroll around the house acting like they're independent and don't need anyone.

sailingfun

The pilots you mention who sold scope are long gone. The pilots controlling the union back then retired between 2001 and 2012 for the most part. Also keep in mind 10 years prior to the 2001 contract we had no scope. Not sure how you sell something you don't have. Did you fly the BAE 146 at ASA?

Verdell

Actually yea, I'd say it does. I would say that the majority has, or are having, kids, and realize how important maternity leave is at ANY company, and how generally lacking it has been.

Unless you don't like kids because they're junior.

Bucking Bar

Prior to the **permitted** outsourcing, Delta scope was very simple. "Delta pilots will perform Delta flying in accordance with this Pilot Working Agreement." Delta flying was simply Delta's code.

The problem was Delta wanted to acquire other airlines' code and share its code with other airlines.

A whole lot of words were then added to facilitate management's operation of several airlines within an airline, denial of ALPA's then merger policy (written by Eastern pilots from the lessons learned in that debacle) and permit the controlled outsourcing of Delta pilots' jobs. Bankruptcy transcripts gave us all a peak behind the curtain of these negotiations, as $660,000,000 was credited for scope concessions.

Logically - I do like your question "how do you sell something that doesn't exit?" The fact it was sold both documents its existence and what management agreed it was worth.

The net effect was the loss of over 5,000 ALPA members' jobs, a reduction in wages to poverty levels at the regional carriers and arguably, the bankruptcy of Delta as a result of an ill-considered and failed race to the bottom business model.

Scoop

So did ALPA also have no use for all those turning 60 and 65 for those 30-40 years during which all Pilots moved up the seniority list accordingly?

I am still agnostic on this issue but feel you are totally ignoring the above issue.

Scoop

MrMustache

Over the years we have all seen Captains retire who have been held in high regard by the pilot group. They retired with honor like those before them. Many of the greats took the VEOP and have been truly missed over the past few years. It's interesting that many who are the most vocal for age 67 were in prime position to take the VEOP, yet are still here and making fools of themselves trying to continue flying. Some were even well respected but they're behavior has tarnished that respect for many. It's sad that this job is their identity and now many can't wait for them to leave.

sailingfun

Every Delta pilot should be a bit agnostic on the issue. Most just get emotional and don't think it through. Yes it will cost a years movement give or take a month or two. On the positive side every pilot would have a choice of two options and a Third possibility with no choice.
1. Work tell 67. (Significant retirement boost)
2. Retire early
3. Forced out medically (50% plus of our pilots) and receive two additional years of disability pay plus medical coverage.

If you laid out the above to a financial guy he would likely tell you that you would be a fool not to support 67 regardless of your current seniority or date of hire. Before all the posts start about how your all retiring at 50 you won't! For the few that might go early 67 makes early out program offers more financially viable to the company and thus more likely to be offered.
I don't support 67 but only beciause I feel from a medical and cognitive standard 65 is right. From a career standard 67 would probably benefit most pilots more than hurt.