nene

Age 60~65 change could not of happened at a worse time for the pilot market.

never underestimate congress to do the wrong thing at the wrong time

crewdawg

But back then, because ICAO had already accepted age 65, it actually made sense and there wasn't much of a defense to stay 60.

nene

So your willing to outsource all safety of flight decisions to ICAO?

Suppose tomorrow that ICAO suddenly raises their age guidance to 68, you ok with that then?

FangsF15

That's true about congress, of course, but I was more remarking on the fact that their strongest argument has become compltely moot. If they wanted to play that card, they should have done in 2.69 years ago when hiring was going gangbusters and there really was something you could call a shortage. Not to mention timing it when hiring was at 200+/month, it would have seriously minimized stagnation. The only remainig argument now is, essentially, "I want". And that's not very compelling.

Exactly.

crewdawg

Never said I agreed with it. Just said that it made sense why they moved it then. If they (ICAO) moved it to 68, then I'd suspect it would be an uphill battle to keep the stauts quo.

zippinbye

When was the polling on this topic accomplished and where can the results be seen? Just curious, since I have not heard of it.

When > age 60 was discussed, I don't think there was any wide-spread ALPA polling, although there may have been some specific council polling at particular carriers. John Prater acted like he was speaking for all pilots, everywhere. And the "we must abide ICAO" mantra carried a surprising amount of clout. After all, the nation with the strongest safety standards should just loosen them up to get along with the world, right? How is it 60 to 65 was a great idea in 2009, without polling, but 65 to 67 is dangerous and awful in 2024 (again, without polling)? I think ALPA feared polling would not support their agenda in 09, and the same could be true now. Wouldn't it make sense to really know what the numbers are?

If "the vast majority of pilots aren’t for increasing the mandatory retirement age" is your opinion, well then, fair enough. But we really don't know how the opinions break down for all ALPA pilots or the industry as a whole, do we?

I haven't weighed in on this topic in recent months because I don't want to get flamed. Since I'm venturing into the arena now, I will state that I was vehemently opposed to the increase that occurred in 2009, and that my stance on 65 to 67 is different. I'm not out there lobbying for change, but I would likely exercise the option for two more years if offered. Perspectives change with time and age, plus I lost 2.5 years to a medical issue. LTD isn't just for your final years, and if you're fortunate enough to come back, you might just recognize that being an airline pilot is a pretty sweet way of life. I won't lose sleep if everything stays the same. But I will do what makes sense for me if 67 comes through.


Read what you want into what I've said, while considering that I'm not the only pilot that isn't against raising the age. You can't say where opinions fall without polling.

TED74

Since the vast majority of ALPA pilots aren’t nearing 65, they don’t want a change. Perhaps their opinions will change as yours did, when the implications for themselves and their families shift from mostly bad to mostly good. That minority of pilots will always exist, but hopefully remain in the significant minority.

To put it simply, most of us don’t want to earn less by age 65 with the understanding that we could have the privilege of working beyond 65 to try to claw back some or all of those losses.

tcco94

polling: common sense based on the age of the seniority list


lol

this change helps one small sliver of people and for the vast majority of the industry screws us all over. Again actually since we’ve done this rodeo twice now. Probably won’t end at 67, some of y’all have no hobbies or life outside of flying cruise in an airliner so you’d prefer to do it until you die in the seat I’m pretty convinced

CRJphlyer

I’m not advocating for someone abusing the LTD benefit that Delta pilots have. Simply pointing out that it can in fact be abused with some finesse.

Comparing potential (alleged) abuse of a negotiated benefit like LTD is an ocean apart from turning in a fellow pilot (or insinuating that someone should) to management for something.

Have you ever called out sick without being sick? How about fatigue without being fatigued? THAT would be more of a “potato/potato” argument than the other thing you mentioned.

Valar Morghulis

Indifferent, but the “polling” that was done were the resolutions to raise the age that failed in every single council they were submitted to, some by hilarious margins and in one case they couldn’t get a single person to second the resolution so it could be discussed with over 100 people in the room.