23.M.7 Updated
07-27-2023, 07:35 AM
#231
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
The other side of the coin is, when we negotiated the batch sizes as a part of one of the Covid LOA's, what else could we have gotten had we not fought for batch sizes? Permanent PS commuting? Other improvements? Who knows, but whatever "price" we paid to secure batch sizes in the LOA was lost as well.
07-27-2023, 10:18 AM
#232
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,807
Yes, generally when the union gives something up, I'd expect they get something meaningful in return. I especially want something in return when we're giving up something we negotiated to get in the first place. I just don't veiw a promise from the company to limit 23m7 (we've already debated whether their application is even legit, so I wont touch that here), a "good deal." I've already seen them try to negotiate a side deal with an FO which closely mirrors a post above, so we clearly can't trust them to do the right thing.
07-27-2023, 01:52 PM
#233
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Posts: 4,995
Yes, generally when the union gives something up, I'd expect they get something meaningful in return. I especially want something in return when we're giving up something we negotiated to get in the first place. I just don't veiw a promise from the company to limit 23m7 (we've already debated whether their application is even legit, so I wont touch that here), a "good deal." I've already seen them try to negotiate a side deal with an FO which closely mirrors a post above, so we clearly can't trust them to do the right thing.
07-27-2023, 01:58 PM
#234
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Posts: 10,518
We got something…it’s just not something that was important to everyone. Plenty of commuters were rightfully ticked off that GS coverage moved so slowly and then transitioned into IAs that they couldn’t get the premium flying they were due nor track if the right person (or anyone) was paid appropriately. Even if you don’t commute, more foresight on green slip assignments can now make some rotations flyable that previously were not. That is what I see as the most valuable end state for the winners here (yes there are losers), with tracking and transparency being less meaningful. Those who previously scored IAs they never could have held as timely green slips, and local folks who weren’t as encumbered by delayed assignments as commuters were are probably the big losers out of the settlement.
07-27-2023, 02:05 PM
#235
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Fair enough. While they may see it differently, I think you and I agree the settlement rectifies significant seniority abrogation across the seniority list and I consider that a win.
07-27-2023, 03:57 PM
#236
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,535
Just one data point but scheduling seems to be getting more bold with their new 23M7 powers. Doing a red eye on a greenslip with a show just after midnight and scheduling straight up cold calls me during my pre red eye nap on my day off and leaves the following voice mail around 5pm:
”Hey looks like you raised your hand for a green slip later on, how would you like an assignment instead for an atlanta flight that leaves in 3 hours? Call us back if interested.”
First time ever at any airline that I’ve been cold called by scheduling to play “let’s make a deal.”
”Hey looks like you raised your hand for a green slip later on, how would you like an assignment instead for an atlanta flight that leaves in 3 hours? Call us back if interested.”
First time ever at any airline that I’ve been cold called by scheduling to play “let’s make a deal.”
07-27-2023, 03:58 PM
#237
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Posts: 4,535
Please write your Rep about this. ALPA needs to know.
It would appear this is actually a Green Slip with Conflict; 4x pay (and at least single pay for the pilot who should have gotten it) and ACE the crap out of it!!!! Then consider calling in for the FAR117 violation that this actually is & ASAP that.
Especially after the big concession we made to avoid this kind of thing.
If you don't mind telling us, what fleet and seat was this on?
It would appear this is actually a Green Slip with Conflict; 4x pay (and at least single pay for the pilot who should have gotten it) and ACE the crap out of it!!!! Then consider calling in for the FAR117 violation that this actually is & ASAP that.
Especially after the big concession we made to avoid this kind of thing.
If you don't mind telling us, what fleet and seat was this on?
07-27-2023, 04:08 PM
#238
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
I am not seeing the 117 violation. He was awarded a GS and they then called and tried to assign him a trip. They are allowed one call for things like this. The contractual implications would be interesting but I see no 117 issues.
07-27-2023, 04:20 PM
#239
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Posts: 4,535
it's not a 117 violation if a pilot had a shortened overnight but still legal prospective rest.
07-27-2023, 04:32 PM
#240
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 1,032
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