Average days per month workerd at DL?
03-21-2023, 06:53 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
JMHO: work to me is measured by TAFF (time away from family). Sure, if reserve means you are getting in a car and leaving your driveway it's in the TAFF column. But if you're spending time with the family who would otherwise be at home if you were on a trip...that to me is a win and the only reason we moved our family to a base. Sitting reserve on a WB has been great for the TAFF but only if your Junior to me otherwise you better off making more $$ as NB A!
03-21-2023, 08:34 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,264
I agree with having a differentiation. But what is being shared are purely anecdotes that do not represent the average new hire experience as requested by the OP.
Is it possible to be on an overstaffed category where you'll find that you are only leaving your house a handful of times each month? Absolutely. Is that what a new hire should expect? Absolutely not.
Is it possible to be on an overstaffed category where you'll find that you are only leaving your house a handful of times each month? Absolutely. Is that what a new hire should expect? Absolutely not.
I'm not looking for strictly new hire data. I'm trying to see if anyone knows of an objective data source like MIT's Airline Data Project or similar (perhaps DALPA data) that provides an average number of days worked per month for a Delta pilot (or probably even better: the median or mode). For example, the Airline Data Project says that in 2018 the average Delta pilot blocked 40.6 hours per month while the average SWA pilot blocked 53.1 hours per month. I realize with so many fleet types that maybe it'd be a more accurate reflection if any kind of average days/mo figure was broken down by fleet but I'm just looking for something that can shed some light on what is really true.
At SWA, it seems to be a widely held belief that pilots at "The Big 3" work more days per month across the board than we do. That then becomes a rationalization for accepting lower pay per credit unit ("TFP" in our case) than we might otherwise be able to achieve in this cycle of contract negotiations because, the reasoning goes, though we fly more hours per month than OAL's, we fly them in fewer days than pilots at The Big 3. Since Delta is currently the benchmark airline with your new contract, it'd be especially helpful to get real info on Delta's days/month worked.
For example, at Delta, using your current (new) contract rates over 30 years, with a somewhat conservative upgrade scenario, and crediting 996 credit hours per year, you'd be 62% ahead of a SWA pilot in career compensation on our current contract crediting an equivalent number of TFP (1140 TFP/yr). The way many SWA pilots react to that information (if they don't debate the credits per year or upgrade scenario) is, "Yeah, but all my buddies at Delta and United have to fly 16 (or 17, or 18) days on their line. At SWA, my line is 12 days. In the four (or 5 or 6) extra days I have that they don't, I can make more than they can make in a month." Or alternatively, they'll explain that Delta, United, and American can have their 16 day lines because they don't want to be gone away from home that much. Most of the SWA pilots I talk to when subjects like this come up believe it's simply a truism that pilots at The Big 3 work at least several days more per month than SWA pilots are required to. They'll also say you guys have PBS, which at SWA, is equivalent to kryptonite. But that's another story.
From the gist of the posts on this thread it doesn't seem like it's true that most pilots at Delta work 16-18 day/mo lines. But maybe the actual data says otherwise?
03-22-2023, 05:46 AM
#86
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,894
OP here. I really appreciate all of the replies and all of the insight. It's helpful. Thank you!
I'm not looking for strictly new hire data. I'm trying to see if anyone knows of an objective data source like MIT's Airline Data Project or similar (perhaps DALPA data) that provides an average number of days worked per month for a Delta pilot (or probably even better: the median or mode). For example, the Airline Data Project says that in 2018 the average Delta pilot blocked 40.6 hours per month while the average SWA pilot blocked 53.1 hours per month. I realize with so many fleet types that maybe it'd be a more accurate reflection if any kind of average days/mo figure was broken down by fleet but I'm just looking for something that can shed some light on what is really true.
At SWA, it seems to be a widely held belief that pilots at "The Big 3" work more days per month across the board than we do. That then becomes a rationalization for accepting lower pay per credit unit ("TFP" in our case) than we might otherwise be able to achieve in this cycle of contract negotiations because, the reasoning goes, though we fly more hours per month than OAL's, we fly them in fewer days than pilots at The Big 3. Since Delta is currently the benchmark airline with your new contract, it'd be especially helpful to get real info on Delta's days/month worked.
For example, at Delta, using your current (new) contract rates over 30 years, with a somewhat conservative upgrade scenario, and crediting 996 credit hours per year, you'd be 62% ahead of a SWA pilot in career compensation on our current contract crediting an equivalent number of TFP (1140 TFP/yr). The way many SWA pilots react to that information (if they don't debate the credits per year or upgrade scenario) is, "Yeah, but all my buddies at Delta and United have to fly 16 (or 17, or 18) days on their line. At SWA, my line is 12 days. In the four (or 5 or 6) extra days I have that they don't, I can make more than they can make in a month." Or alternatively, they'll explain that Delta, United, and American can have their 16 day lines because they don't want to be gone away from home that much. Most of the SWA pilots I talk to when subjects like this come up believe it's simply a truism that pilots at The Big 3 work at least several days more per month than SWA pilots are required to. They'll also say you guys have PBS, which at SWA, is equivalent to kryptonite. But that's another story.
From the gist of the posts on this thread it doesn't seem like it's true that most pilots at Delta work 16-18 day/mo lines. But maybe the actual data says otherwise?
I'm not looking for strictly new hire data. I'm trying to see if anyone knows of an objective data source like MIT's Airline Data Project or similar (perhaps DALPA data) that provides an average number of days worked per month for a Delta pilot (or probably even better: the median or mode). For example, the Airline Data Project says that in 2018 the average Delta pilot blocked 40.6 hours per month while the average SWA pilot blocked 53.1 hours per month. I realize with so many fleet types that maybe it'd be a more accurate reflection if any kind of average days/mo figure was broken down by fleet but I'm just looking for something that can shed some light on what is really true.
At SWA, it seems to be a widely held belief that pilots at "The Big 3" work more days per month across the board than we do. That then becomes a rationalization for accepting lower pay per credit unit ("TFP" in our case) than we might otherwise be able to achieve in this cycle of contract negotiations because, the reasoning goes, though we fly more hours per month than OAL's, we fly them in fewer days than pilots at The Big 3. Since Delta is currently the benchmark airline with your new contract, it'd be especially helpful to get real info on Delta's days/month worked.
For example, at Delta, using your current (new) contract rates over 30 years, with a somewhat conservative upgrade scenario, and crediting 996 credit hours per year, you'd be 62% ahead of a SWA pilot in career compensation on our current contract crediting an equivalent number of TFP (1140 TFP/yr). The way many SWA pilots react to that information (if they don't debate the credits per year or upgrade scenario) is, "Yeah, but all my buddies at Delta and United have to fly 16 (or 17, or 18) days on their line. At SWA, my line is 12 days. In the four (or 5 or 6) extra days I have that they don't, I can make more than they can make in a month." Or alternatively, they'll explain that Delta, United, and American can have their 16 day lines because they don't want to be gone away from home that much. Most of the SWA pilots I talk to when subjects like this come up believe it's simply a truism that pilots at The Big 3 work at least several days more per month than SWA pilots are required to. They'll also say you guys have PBS, which at SWA, is equivalent to kryptonite. But that's another story.
From the gist of the posts on this thread it doesn't seem like it's true that most pilots at Delta work 16-18 day/mo lines. But maybe the actual data says otherwise?
15/85
14/85
17/75
17/75
17/73
15/85
17/77
17/77
So just scrolling through it seems that the vast majority are at 17 days off, so 14 days of work that bid period. A few have 18 as well, I don't see anyone over 18 without training/vacation/mil duty on there.
03-22-2023, 06:13 AM
#87
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,990
FWIW, I think I probably beat the average over the last 14 months with 10.5 days worked. But I also had an above average 135 hours of credit. I don’t think I’ll get that over the next year.
03-22-2023, 06:26 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,058
I’ve been here 15 years. I’ve kept a spreadsheet my entire time here with hours of pay, commutes, days off etc…
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
03-22-2023, 06:42 AM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 85
I’ve been here 15 years. I’ve kept a spreadsheet my entire time here with hours of pay, commutes, days off etc…
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
11.5 days of work over 15 years as a commuter. Not bad.
03-22-2023, 07:05 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,920
I’ve been here 15 years. I’ve kept a spreadsheet my entire time here with hours of pay, commutes, days off etc…
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
Im generally a fly-my-line kinda pilot. I’ve never really been senior in category. I swap some trips but green slip only occasionally (<1 time/year). I’ve sat roughly 6 years worth of reserve, done 7 initial courses, and operated under 5 contracts here now. I’ve always commuted and I count days off at home in my tally. If I have to commute the day before or after a trip, I don’t count that day as a day off at home. I count reserve days at home and sick time as days off at home. Just giving context for how I process my data.
I’ve averaged 78.65 hours of pay and 18.9 days off at home for my time here. Going forward those numbers will likely be better because our work rules have changed significantly from when I started to now.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
