Originally Posted by CBreezy

It wasn't a single reserve assignment. It was a pattern of failing to be in position that they got away with for awhile.

Originally Posted by ancman

Agreed, but the only product of their actions was failure to be available for one assignment. There are enough gray areas in our reserve language, both PWA and FOM, that make it hard to enforce until something like that happens.

Even the company’s use of KCM, nonrev, and jumpseat records wasn’t perfect. There are plenty of ways to be in (or out) of position without going through KCM, nonreving, or triggering a CASS inquiry.

Originally Posted by OOfff

ah yes, the “you can’t prove they don’t drive from montana to Detroit for short call” position.


the product those a—holes were selling is their labor availability. They were selling it for hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and intentionally lied and failed to live up to it. They should have been fired for it.

Originally Posted by ancman

That was Steve Dickson’s position, but the lawyers ultimately didn’t see it that way. Many of them did a fine job providing their labor availability from wherever they were up until that incident. Again, I don’t condone what they did, but the only product of their actions was one missed assignment. There are lower penalties that normally apply to that.

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy

I never thought I'd say this outside the realm of whiskey, but I think I'm leaning double. In the pictures I've seen the single just looks cheap and kinda bleh. I also think the stance seems a little high for a two-button jacket but that could depend on what tailoring is available.

Does feel kinda dumb to have two options. Always thought of uniforms as an "all in or all out" situation.

Originally Posted by ancman

That was Steve Dickson’s position, but the lawyers ultimately didn’t see it that way. Many of them did a fine job providing their labor availability from wherever they were up until that incident. Again, I don’t condone what they did, but the only product of their actions was one missed assignment. There are lower penalties that normally apply to that.

Originally Posted by 20Fathoms

No firsthand knowledge but this is how I heard it, others can chime in and correct if inaccurate.

It was during the waning days of the 747 and DTW was the only base for that aircraft. Routes varied but for quite a while there were zero departures from DTW so every single trip started and ended with a deadhead. Despite this fact, the company still put copious amounts of pilots on short call to sit around Detroit and twiddle their thumbs.

Many decided that was stupid and since any trip they would get would start with a deadhead anyway, they just decided not to show up for short call and stayed in Florida or wherever they were and deviated from DH when called. Obviously this was a major abuse of the system.

All worked fine until a whale from ATL to ICN had a medical emergency and diverted into Detroit. Original crew timed out and replacements were called off short call to work the flight. Oops. Quite a few people got caught out and the company went back through KCM records and determined that this had been going on for years. They got fired but ALPA got at least some of them back.

Anecdotally, it seemed the company retaliated with increased short calls for everyone for a while.

Originally Posted by Baradium

My recollection is there was a single flight a day from Detroit so the chances of someone calling in sick last minute were very low. I believe it was an equipment sub to 747 that caught them.

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

They were bidding reserve on purpose knowing they would not be available. They were stealing. They should have been fired. I get what you are trying to say, but I completely disagree with you here. A one off, I didn’t check my schedule before bed and missed my report, is very different.

Again I’m saying this respectfully, I really understand your point about full representation, innocent until proven guilty, I believe this is different and would have no problem with them being fired. Same as if you showed up drunk. Time to do something else as you are now untrustworthy