How the AIP Happened
12-04-2022, 10:03 PM
#61
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 13
Thanks for sharing.
I trust the collective wisdom of the pilot group to decide if this AIP, that will become a TA, is good enough.
The question before the 17 voting reps is no longer “is it good enough?”
Their only question is “should the pilots decide?”
Publish all the final language and let the 15k of us decide. I keep seeing 9-8 tossed around. This is a clear 17-0.
Recall any knucklehead that votes to deny us MEMRAT.
I trust the collective wisdom of the pilot group to decide if this AIP, that will become a TA, is good enough.
The question before the 17 voting reps is no longer “is it good enough?”
Their only question is “should the pilots decide?”
Publish all the final language and let the 15k of us decide. I keep seeing 9-8 tossed around. This is a clear 17-0.
Recall any knucklehead that votes to deny us MEMRAT.
12-05-2022, 02:24 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
12-05-2022, 02:59 AM
#63
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 56
12-05-2022, 03:09 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 193
"Retro number will be based off flt pay+ advance pay but should be north of 80k for captains. Biggest retro payout in history of airlines"
Am I missing something on this? There will be some Captains and FO's that get that kind of retro but how many? My guess is closer to half that amount for many. If you were displaced or on international fleet that wasn't flying much and collecting ALV for a lot of the period I don't see how you get to $80k. Some people who were senior on narrow bodies and weren't sitting around waiting for training will clean up with OT and more than ample flying opportunities. A lot of people weren't in that position. Maybe lost their captain seat, or waiting for TOE or junior in the category they displaced to and deep on reserve. I think the retro for some will far exceed $80k and for many will be far less through no fault of their own. No good solution on this one but a windfall for some but a yawn for many. Also remember the "biggest retro" ever is on a payroll that was covered mostly by Uncle Sam so take the comment with a grain of salt.
Am I missing something on this? There will be some Captains and FO's that get that kind of retro but how many? My guess is closer to half that amount for many. If you were displaced or on international fleet that wasn't flying much and collecting ALV for a lot of the period I don't see how you get to $80k. Some people who were senior on narrow bodies and weren't sitting around waiting for training will clean up with OT and more than ample flying opportunities. A lot of people weren't in that position. Maybe lost their captain seat, or waiting for TOE or junior in the category they displaced to and deep on reserve. I think the retro for some will far exceed $80k and for many will be far less through no fault of their own. No good solution on this one but a windfall for some but a yawn for many. Also remember the "biggest retro" ever is on a payroll that was covered mostly by Uncle Sam so take the comment with a grain of salt.
12-05-2022, 03:25 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 208
You may have just highlighted the reason that getting several Billion$ in back pay might not have been in the cards. The airline was shut down during a cataclysmic event. Right vs. wrong is, unfortunately, different than Achievable vs NFW.
Last edited by First Break; 12-05-2022 at 03:36 AM.
12-05-2022, 03:55 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,535
Ah so, Kemosabe. You need to be more precise in your posts and/or not quite so prickly when quetioned about the meaning. BTW, when he(Tunes) initially answered that, I think he was talking to me(or at least my sphere of posts), so yes, I'm pretty sure I'm familiar with his work.
What you wrote can easily be interpreted/construed as what I ASKED in my question for clarification.
You can be the final arbiter of truth....reread your post and see if any of this makes sense. If ir doesn't, disregard my question for clarification.
Cheers
Edit...seems norcal had a whole lot more to provide than what Tunes was able/willing to provide...even after he put on his politicians suit. That is , if you even read these boards.
What you wrote can easily be interpreted/construed as what I ASKED in my question for clarification.
You can be the final arbiter of truth....reread your post and see if any of this makes sense. If ir doesn't, disregard my question for clarification.
Cheers
Edit...seems norcal had a whole lot more to provide than what Tunes was able/willing to provide...even after he put on his politicians suit. That is , if you even read these boards.
I still stand by everything I’ve said
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
12-05-2022, 03:56 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 193
Agreed. Just pointing out that I don't think $80k is an accurate selling point. Do the math. You need to have made around $400k in 22 and over $250 in 20 and 21 in flight pay to make that retro amount. Imo the union did a poor job as did the company on how displacements and fleet management were handled during COVID. It was very bifurcated and neither side cared.
12-05-2022, 04:17 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,522
Is it possible some/many of these QoL gains in section 23 could be nullified by slippery language? That is my concern. If this is riddled with language like the Covid april redib LOA then these “gains” mean nothing. On the surface the bullet points look great. But that’s not what we live under.
12-05-2022, 04:38 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
So that I don't read too much into this... The opposite(Which is what you said) would be, " A rep said we will not get parked if this deal is rejected"
Who said that and/or where is it posted?
I am reading what you wrote literally...not trying to pick nits but as they say ..."words matter"
Example .......
"Reps said the mediator will park us if we turn it down"
"refute" would be...... "The mediator never said that"
"opposite" would be.... " The mediator said she wouldn't park us if we turn it down"
There is a big difference between the two ...thus my request for clafification
So, apologies for this going sideways. I was not besmirching Tunes nor Puddy. I was looking for clarification on semantics because the "timeline" is important if this is turned down and accurate quotes by members in the room hold sway.
12-05-2022, 04:56 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 999
"Refuting" what someone says is not the same as "saying the opposite"......which was the nexus of my question asking for clarification from Puddytatt
Example .......
"Reps said the mediator will park us if we turn it down"
"refute" would be...... "The mediator never said that"
"opposite" would be.... " The mediator said she wouldn't park us if we turn it down"
There is a big difference between the two ...thus my request for clafification
So, apologies for this going sideways. I was not besmirching Tunes nor Puddy. I was looking for clarification on semantics because the "timeline" is important if this is turned down and accurate quotes by members in the room hold sway.
Example .......
"Reps said the mediator will park us if we turn it down"
"refute" would be...... "The mediator never said that"
"opposite" would be.... " The mediator said she wouldn't park us if we turn it down"
There is a big difference between the two ...thus my request for clafification
So, apologies for this going sideways. I was not besmirching Tunes nor Puddy. I was looking for clarification on semantics because the "timeline" is important if this is turned down and accurate quotes by members in the room hold sway.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
