How the AIP Happened
12-08-2022, 06:07 AM
#191
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Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 175
“So we’re getting 14 percent on 2020 earnings, but then 0 on all 2023 earnings until PWA is signed. Also traditionally, our PWA’s have all gone into effect on January 1st. Now you’re telling me there’s going to be another gap on retro after already agreeing not to make retro pensionable or compoundable? This makes no sense. How will I explain that to 15,000 pilots looking at this agreement under a microscope?”
See, not hard.
The compoundable concession that will keep giving the first 3 months of every year going forward.
See, not hard.
The compoundable concession that will keep giving the first 3 months of every year going forward.
12-08-2022, 06:09 AM
#192
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - United Airlines Chief Executive Scott Kirby said a tentative contract agreement between rival Delta Air Lines and its pilots union would set an industry pattern.
“It’s a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we’ll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward,” Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
“The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates,” Kirby said. “This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it’s going to be a pass through.”
Kirby said demand is still str......................
“It’s a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we’ll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward,” Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
“The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates,” Kirby said. “This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it’s going to be a pass through.”
Kirby said demand is still str......................
Be interesting to see what Spirit did on their AIP announced yesterday
I hope Scott Kirby & Jerry Fielding are correct and MORE correct in their prognostications because, "Good goes around".....or so I've heard
Last edited by Buck Rogers; 12-08-2022 at 06:24 AM.
12-08-2022, 06:09 AM
#193
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 168
My wife is a health care professional at the best paying hospital in our area. She’s a great employee. Her hospital gives out “merit based raises”. She had an exceptional review this year. Got a 1.5% pay raise, or IMO a 7% pay cut. Corporate America is destroying earning power for everyone around us. An 18% raise on just rates is barely above inflation neutral. Factor in various soft pay and our earning power is restored to easily beat inflation. If you were to ask me, the management teams of all the big airlines were teaming up to low ball us and I’d be willing to bet AA wont even come close to our AIP, United, maybe. On the basic math that I have done, I am very comfortable with this AIP thus far. Of course we should all do our due diligence on final language.
12-08-2022, 06:23 AM
#194
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
How do you know this wasn’t brought up during negotiations? How do you know that this wasn’t part of the deal? It’s obviously advantageous to the company to have it written this way. But again, you don’t win 100% of the time in any negotiation. I try to have the big picture view here, management wants to give nothing, and take all they can. We succeeded in giving up nothing and gaining in various soft pay items. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. If you ask me, we won and they largely lost.
Have you ever sold a car and come to a soft deal (no contract nor shaking of hands) and had second thoughts that you sold at bare minimum and are regretting it? Then the buyer says he wants you to buy new car mats and give it an oil change and detail it prior to delivery?
I have ...told him "No...there is no more on the table". It is called negotiations for a reason. I am curious how it went down in the room, but it doesn't really matter in the end. If we get something to vote on ,we will all measure and weigh it and vote accordingly.
12-08-2022, 07:05 AM
#195
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
It’s a solid play by the company negotiators. DOS ensures there will be an expedited TA/ratification process with little or no games played on our side. This play would only be prudent if you thought the AIP was good enough to carry the day as is. If you misjudge and support looks shaky, you can always re-visit the decision and spin it as generous act of goodwill.
12-08-2022, 08:38 AM
#196
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
It’s a solid play by the company negotiators. DOS ensures there will be an expedited TA/ratification process with little or no games played on our side. This play would only be prudent if you thought the AIP was good enough to carry the day as is. If you misjudge and support looks shaky, you can always re-visit the decision and spin it as generous act of goodwill.
12-08-2022, 09:33 AM
#197
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Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 147
It’s a solid play by the company negotiators. DOS ensures there will be an expedited TA/ratification process with little or no games played on our side. This play would only be prudent if you thought the AIP was good enough to carry the day as is. If you misjudge and support looks shaky, you can always re-visit the decision and spin it as generous act of goodwill.
12-08-2022, 10:28 AM
#200
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,591
I think you’re correct. Initially I was thinking mid Feb, but wasn’t taking into account the lawyers writing the contract language, and assuming the MEC would agree to shrink the vote from 60 days to 45 days. They say 4-6 weeks to get the language written, agreed to by both parties, and distributed to all MEC members, so mid March to the 1st of April.
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