sailingfun

The negotiators could have gotten us a 100% raise and full retro to go with it. All they had to do was ask!

SparkySmith

According to the C1 update, they had to change the negotiating committee’s guidance in order to make it an agreement. I suspect the most significant change was a reduction in the retirement demand in the NC guidance from the MEC.

I applaud the C1 email for identifying the risks on both sides of the issue: there are risks to rejecting the proposal and risks to agreeing. Their letter was evenhanded and professional IMO. Of note, their telling of the events leading to the AIP align with those first reported anonymously all over the place (FB, here, every DAL group text), contrary to the many cries of BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bottlen0se

Perhaps you should join the negotiation committee. Some pilots seem to think we demand, beat our chests and Delta gives. If I had to bet, management plots equally against us, crafting ways to get concessions and destroy our earning power. IMO they lost from that perspective. Negotiations means we wind up settling somewhere in between in order to move forward. Otherwise they wouldn’t be called negotiations. FWIW, Assuming no gaping holes all over the TA, I hope it passes.

GeneralLee

Moron pilots..I bet you wouldn’t say that to their faces. Better yet, when are you applying to volunteer for alpa?

Mooner

Exactly. Too many view contract negotiations as “contract demands.” Anyone who has sold something in a manner that maximizes price knows better, which is likely everyone. Somehow this negotiation is seen differently? In my 30 year career, it’s always been this way. Too much emotion.

charleyvarrick

Kind of makes you wonder who the source of the leaks was, doesn't it?

Herkflyr

Exactly. To quote an old silly saying (as I've done before, but it still resonates): "If someone is bound and determined to be miserable and not succeed...no one can stop him."

I've gotten to listen to rants in years past from guys calling the MEC a bunch of "losers" because we had the gall to negotiate industry-leading pay for the 73N. Another guys said he was "quitting the union because C2K was so concessionary."

Most guys who literally lose sleep over perceived bad agreements (as opposed to true devastating agreements like the BK agreements) couldn't tell you a year later what they were upset about, nor how their lives were negatively impacted in the least. In fact many of these same pilots are the ones who likely are enjoying the fruits of a good agreement the most--but they'll never admit it. After all, at the end of the day, voting NO in perpetuity is just plain...fun. You get to always say where the union failed, and always know in hindsight what we woulda should coulda, but couldn't in ten thousand years give good guidance for what we should be pursuing going forward.

"We should have held out for more" only goes so far. As the ALPA-written "the Do's and Dont's of Negotiating" article from a few years ago put well, "do realize that at some point you have a deal." It seems to me that the negotiators, as directed by the MEC, reached that point--and let's not forget that it has taken a lot time to get there. Reading some of the gripes you would think that we all just tripped over ourselves to meekly take the company's first offer. That is hardly the case here.

Bottlen0se

My wife is a health care professional at the best paying hospital in our area. She’s a great employee. Her hospital gives out “merit based raises”. She had an exceptional review this year. Got a 1.5% pay raise, or IMO a 7% pay cut. Corporate America is destroying earning power for everyone around us. An 18% raise on just rates is barely above inflation neutral. Factor in various soft pay and our earning power is restored to easily beat inflation. If you were to ask me, the management teams of all the big airlines were teaming up to low ball us and I’d be willing to bet AA wont even come close to our AIP, United, maybe. On the basic math that I have done, I am very comfortable with this AIP thus far. Of course we should all do our due diligence on final language.

hockeypilot44

“So we’re getting 14 percent on 2020 earnings, but then 0 on all 2023 earnings until PWA is signed. Also traditionally, our PWA’s have all gone into effect on January 1st. Now you’re telling me there’s going to be another gap on retro after already agreeing not to make retro pensionable or compoundable? This makes no sense. How will I explain that to 15,000 pilots looking at this agreement under a microscope?”

See, not hard.

The compoundable concession that will keep giving the first 3 months of every year going forward.

sailingfun

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - United Airlines Chief Executive Scott Kirby said a tentative contract agreement between rival Delta Air Lines and its pilots union would set an industry pattern.

“It’s a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we’ll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward,” Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.

Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.

“The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates,” Kirby said. “This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it’s going to be a pass through.”

Kirby said demand is still strong for airplane tickets, which he noted are cheaper today than over the last 15 years.

“Prices are still in historical terms 40-50% lower in real terms,” Kirby said. “They are going to go up but it’s still going to be the best value of your travel,” he said, comparing flights to hikes in hotels, rental cars and theme park tickets.

Delta’s contract offer also includes a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums, and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.

Its union estimates the proposed deal represents more than $7.2 billion of cumulative value increases over the next four years.

American Airlines and United have promised “industry-leading” contracts to their pilots.

Last month, American pilots rejected a proposed 19% pay hike over two years that would have cost the Texas-based carrier about $2 billion. Similarly, United pilots turned down an offer that included more than 14.5% cumulative wage increases and enhanced overtime and training pay.