Prepare yourselves… 2023 AEs
12-06-2023, 04:32 AM
#6131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Hates Commuting
Posts: 960
12-06-2023, 04:46 AM
#6133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 830
Certainly some details to workout, but we are only on average talking about 30 or so pilots a month. Shouldn't be the hard to slot them into a new category where they can actually be productive to alleaviate the "shortage." I mean after all it is "let the experienced pilots fly act" not let them sit in a category and not fly act.
The pilots that have already retired that want to come back would bid along side the other new hires, so that shouldn't be an issue.
The pilots that have already retired that want to come back would bid along side the other new hires, so that shouldn't be an issue.
12-06-2023, 05:39 AM
#6134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: MD88
Posts: 456
True but on a NB fleet, save maybe the 717, it is getting really hard to avoid trips with circadian swaps as bad/worse than long haul international. I might stay within 2 time zones of home, but I'm doing 10-13 hour dayovers post redeye into a night flight to a short overnight, with a "back to normal-ish" report time, getting in at midnight.
12-06-2023, 06:06 AM
#6135
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 2,266
Guys, we need to stop fighting each other..I kinda agree with JB here. If 67 happens and those pilots can't stay on their WB due to ICAO rules I would want ALPA to fight for them and get as much money from the company as possible. The company is our enemy, not fellow pilots. Let them have their money, it doesn't take anything from the rest of us.
1. Bid domestic
2. Retire
It’s a CHOICE to keep working after 65. So if you want to, do it in a way the new laws allow.
As pointed out old pilots bid FE back in the day to keep flying. Sounds like precident.
12-06-2023, 06:26 AM
#6136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 670
You and several others keep saying that it must go to a vote and your crystal ball says it will surely go down in flames. But what if I told you there won't be a vote? Play this scenario out:
Congress raises the mandatory retirement age to 67 (and our inside sources are telling us that the obstacles have been cleared and it's a done deal, expect a standalone FAA reauthorization bill in the senate late this month or early next month which Schumer and Duckworth have already endorsed). ICAO doesn't follow, and won't follow for quite some time, because they are always paralyzed by red tape. 65+ WBAs are now precluded from flying internationally, through no fault of their own. (That's completely unlike people who refuse to get a visa or got themselves a DUI, btw). The company will surely try some shenanegins to avoid paying us or to get us out of the seats. When they do, we file a a grievance. This puts ALPA in an awkward position since they unfairly and discriminatorily opposed 67, and most likely the first of the DFR suits for that will have already been filed against them (also in the works right now). ALPA always looks out for ALPA, and they don't want to cough up potentionally millions per affected pilot in the harm they caused abandoning us in that and abandoning the promised 4th pillar. Precedent has been set that the master chair can settle a grievance without using memrat. ALPA wants this problem to go away quick, so that's what they'll do. They'll negotiate us pay protection for our WBA seats, and there will be some giveback from the pilot group to pay for it. That will be a grievance settlement, and you won't get to vote on it. We'll be either sitting home if they choose to bypass us, or flying NBA at WBA rates for 2+ more years (expect a bill for age 70 or no limit next). Voila. We got our min balance and 4th pillar after all.
And why wouldn't you want that? James is right. Union of 1. You only care about what benefits you, and by god you aren't going to give something up that makes it fair for someone else. Fair only applies to you. Never mind that you'll have the opportunity to work 2+ more years at $500-$800K per year too. On a path we paved for you. But we know we won't hear a thank you and that's all right.
12-06-2023, 06:34 AM
#6137
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,855
Cool story. You've held your breath, and stomped your feet and pitched a fit to that effect several times now. It's all about you you you. We boom er s need to get out of your seat and shut up and go away. We get it.
You and several others keep saying that it must go to a vote and your crystal ball says it will surely go down in flames. But what if I told you there won't be a vote? Play this scenario out:
Congress raises the mandatory retirement age to 67 (and our inside sources are telling us that the obstacles have been cleared and it's a done deal, expect a standalone FAA reauthorization bill in the senate late this month or early next month which Schumer and Duckworth have already endorsed). ICAO doesn't follow, and won't follow for quite some time, because they are always paralyzed by red tape. 65+ WBAs are now precluded from flying internationally, through no fault of their own. (That's completely unlike people who refuse to get a visa or got themselves a DUI, btw). The company will surely try some shenanegins to avoid paying us or to get us out of the seats. When they do, we file a a grievance. This puts ALPA in an awkward position since they unfairly and discriminatorily opposed 67, and most likely the first of the DFR suits for that will have already been filed against them (also in the works right now). ALPA always looks out for ALPA, and they don't want to cough up potentionally millions per affected pilot in the harm they caused abandoning us in that and abandoning the promised 4th pillar. Precedent has been set that the master chair can settle a grievance without using memrat. ALPA wants this problem to go away quick, so that's what they'll do. They'll negotiate us pay protection for our WBA seats, and there will be some giveback from the pilot group to pay for it. That will be a grievance settlement, and you won't get to vote on it. We'll be either sitting home if they choose to bypass us, or flying NBA at WBA rates for 2+ more years (expect a bill for age 70 or no limit next). Voila. We got our min balance and 4th pillar after all.
And why wouldn't you want that? James is right. Union of 1. You only care about what benefits you, and by god you aren't going to give something up that makes it fair for someone else. Fair only applies to you. Never mind that you'll have the opportunity to work 2+ more years at $500-$800K per year too. On a path we paved for you. But we know we won't hear a thank you and that's all right.
You and several others keep saying that it must go to a vote and your crystal ball says it will surely go down in flames. But what if I told you there won't be a vote? Play this scenario out:
Congress raises the mandatory retirement age to 67 (and our inside sources are telling us that the obstacles have been cleared and it's a done deal, expect a standalone FAA reauthorization bill in the senate late this month or early next month which Schumer and Duckworth have already endorsed). ICAO doesn't follow, and won't follow for quite some time, because they are always paralyzed by red tape. 65+ WBAs are now precluded from flying internationally, through no fault of their own. (That's completely unlike people who refuse to get a visa or got themselves a DUI, btw). The company will surely try some shenanegins to avoid paying us or to get us out of the seats. When they do, we file a a grievance. This puts ALPA in an awkward position since they unfairly and discriminatorily opposed 67, and most likely the first of the DFR suits for that will have already been filed against them (also in the works right now). ALPA always looks out for ALPA, and they don't want to cough up potentionally millions per affected pilot in the harm they caused abandoning us in that and abandoning the promised 4th pillar. Precedent has been set that the master chair can settle a grievance without using memrat. ALPA wants this problem to go away quick, so that's what they'll do. They'll negotiate us pay protection for our WBA seats, and there will be some giveback from the pilot group to pay for it. That will be a grievance settlement, and you won't get to vote on it. We'll be either sitting home if they choose to bypass us, or flying NBA at WBA rates for 2+ more years (expect a bill for age 70 or no limit next). Voila. We got our min balance and 4th pillar after all.
And why wouldn't you want that? James is right. Union of 1. You only care about what benefits you, and by god you aren't going to give something up that makes it fair for someone else. Fair only applies to you. Never mind that you'll have the opportunity to work 2+ more years at $500-$800K per year too. On a path we paved for you. But we know we won't hear a thank you and that's all right.
12-06-2023, 06:36 AM
#6138
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,832
If the law says you can’t fly internationally, and You want to keep working after 65, then you:
1. Bid domestic
2. Retire
It’s a CHOICE to keep working after 65. So if you want to, do it in a way the new laws allow.
As pointed out old pilots bid FE back in the day to keep flying. Sounds like precident.
1. Bid domestic
2. Retire
It’s a CHOICE to keep working after 65. So if you want to, do it in a way the new laws allow.
As pointed out old pilots bid FE back in the day to keep flying. Sounds like precident.
Of all the things on here, this seems the most logical.
12-06-2023, 06:39 AM
#6139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,535
Cool story. You've held your breath, and stomped your feet and pitched a fit to that effect several times now. It's all about you you you. We boom er s need to get out of your seat and shut up and go away. We get it.
You and several others keep saying that it must go to a vote and your crystal ball says it will surely go down in flames. But what if I told you there won't be a vote? Play this scenario out:
Congress raises the mandatory retirement age to 67 (and our inside sources are telling us that the obstacles have been cleared and it's a done deal, expect a standalone FAA reauthorization bill in the senate late this month or early next month which Schumer and Duckworth have already endorsed). ICAO doesn't follow, and won't follow for quite some time, because they are always paralyzed by red tape. 65+ WBAs are now precluded from flying internationally, through no fault of their own. (That's completely unlike people who refuse to get a visa or got themselves a DUI, btw). The company will surely try some shenanegins to avoid paying us or to get us out of the seats. When they do, we file a a grievance. This puts ALPA in an awkward position since they unfairly and discriminatorily opposed 67, and most likely the first of the DFR suits for that will have already been filed against them (also in the works right now). ALPA always looks out for ALPA, and they don't want to cough up potentionally millions per affected pilot in the harm they caused abandoning us in that and abandoning the promised 4th pillar. Precedent has been set that the master chair can settle a grievance without using memrat. ALPA wants this problem to go away quick, so that's what they'll do. They'll negotiate us pay protection for our WBA seats, and there will be some giveback from the pilot group to pay for it. That will be a grievance settlement, and you won't get to vote on it. We'll be either sitting home if they choose to bypass us, or flying NBA at WBA rates for 2+ more years (expect a bill for age 70 or no limit next). Voila. We got our min balance and 4th pillar after all.
And why wouldn't you want that? James is right. Union of 1. You only care about what benefits you, and by god you aren't going to give something up that makes it fair for someone else. Fair only applies to you. Never mind that you'll have the opportunity to work 2+ more years at $500-$800K per year too. On a path we paved for you. But we know we won't hear a thank you and that's all right.
You and several others keep saying that it must go to a vote and your crystal ball says it will surely go down in flames. But what if I told you there won't be a vote? Play this scenario out:
Congress raises the mandatory retirement age to 67 (and our inside sources are telling us that the obstacles have been cleared and it's a done deal, expect a standalone FAA reauthorization bill in the senate late this month or early next month which Schumer and Duckworth have already endorsed). ICAO doesn't follow, and won't follow for quite some time, because they are always paralyzed by red tape. 65+ WBAs are now precluded from flying internationally, through no fault of their own. (That's completely unlike people who refuse to get a visa or got themselves a DUI, btw). The company will surely try some shenanegins to avoid paying us or to get us out of the seats. When they do, we file a a grievance. This puts ALPA in an awkward position since they unfairly and discriminatorily opposed 67, and most likely the first of the DFR suits for that will have already been filed against them (also in the works right now). ALPA always looks out for ALPA, and they don't want to cough up potentionally millions per affected pilot in the harm they caused abandoning us in that and abandoning the promised 4th pillar. Precedent has been set that the master chair can settle a grievance without using memrat. ALPA wants this problem to go away quick, so that's what they'll do. They'll negotiate us pay protection for our WBA seats, and there will be some giveback from the pilot group to pay for it. That will be a grievance settlement, and you won't get to vote on it. We'll be either sitting home if they choose to bypass us, or flying NBA at WBA rates for 2+ more years (expect a bill for age 70 or no limit next). Voila. We got our min balance and 4th pillar after all.
And why wouldn't you want that? James is right. Union of 1. You only care about what benefits you, and by god you aren't going to give something up that makes it fair for someone else. Fair only applies to you. Never mind that you'll have the opportunity to work 2+ more years at $500-$800K per year too. On a path we paved for you. But we know we won't hear a thank you and that's all right.
Side note: you've literally done nothing for me. Just another self-contradictory fantasy that you and your WBA buddies made up after 14 hours of sniffing each other's crew meal indigestion
12-06-2023, 06:55 AM
#6140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 670
You conveniently leave out that the only way we will ever get to enjoy what our seniority would have held during our last 2 years before age 65 is if we stay all the way till 67. There will be 2 years of stagnation at the top of the seniority list that will negatively impact every pilot who doesn't want to or can't fly past age 65.
Nice fantasy but that isn't how any of it works. There isn't even a basis for a grievance. Based on what language? You can't grieve a fantasy. And your DFR schtick is pure comedy.
Side note: you've literally done nothing for me. Just another self-contradictory fantasy that you and your WBA buddies made up after 14 hours of sniffing each other's crew meal indigestion
Side note: you've literally done nothing for me. Just another self-contradictory fantasy that you and your WBA buddies made up after 14 hours of sniffing each other's crew meal indigestion
Now go ahead and look at your phone set on selfie and admire yourself and pat yourself on the back for being the reining king of APC with your "impressive" post count and the hours each and every day you spend here bestowing everyone with your amazing opinions on everything. I'm sure your opinions mean as much to the world as mine. In the end, we'll see who was right. But my money is on you being wrong, and I have a hell of a lot more of it where my mouth is than you do. You're just a guy on the internet with a strange obsession to prove he's The Smartest Man In The Room every day. I'm someone who was flying for this company when you were in grade school and know how stuff works.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
