Prepare yourselves… 2023 AEs
11-04-2023, 12:10 PM
#5691
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,907
11-04-2023, 12:30 PM
#5692
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,520
11-04-2023, 04:49 PM
#5696
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,594
Again, just so we are clear, "the wall" is... what? What is your definition? A 2008 Hire? A 2014 Hire? A 4000 seniority number? A 5000 Seniority number? Something else?
Obviously, a 2008/2014 hire has 100% chance of eventually bidding WB A. That's not a "wall falling", that's just how time works. It's expected.
I will also add, one lucky bidder does not a "fallen wall" make. Exactly like how "the wall fell" for WB B to NH's, for a very short time, only to be completely 'rebuilt' to original specs. I would argue that wasn't any kind of "wall" falling at all, it was simply a confluence of a very bizarre moment in time and seat locks. We will never see the WB B "fall" to a NH again, barring a WW3 type event.
IMO, in order for any "wall" to fall, there has to be a new, permanent shift in bidding. Like how the ER used to be the crown jewel of non-pure-international flying. 7ER A used to take nearly 20 years to hold. But it is now just another 'domestic' category with a few extra perks in the bid packet (sorry if that offends anyone, but you can't deny bidding behavior has permananly changed). The ER A "wall" has indeed fallen. Permanantly. When we take delivery of new WB's as a 767-300 replacement, and if we really do grow the international side of the airline, I can see some kind of further "wall" falling. But to take any kind of credit for it, you've got to define what you mean by "wall" ahead of time.
(And to be fair, I do note that you did specifically posit a 2014 hire getting WB A by Sept 22nd 2025" here. I respectfully disagree WB A will drop to a 5000+ seniority number in that timeframe, but I do commend you for being bold and very specific there. And I'd be delighted to be proven wrong
).
Note: hyperlink only works on desktop version for some reason
Obviously, a 2008/2014 hire has 100% chance of eventually bidding WB A. That's not a "wall falling", that's just how time works. It's expected.
I will also add, one lucky bidder does not a "fallen wall" make. Exactly like how "the wall fell" for WB B to NH's, for a very short time, only to be completely 'rebuilt' to original specs. I would argue that wasn't any kind of "wall" falling at all, it was simply a confluence of a very bizarre moment in time and seat locks. We will never see the WB B "fall" to a NH again, barring a WW3 type event.
IMO, in order for any "wall" to fall, there has to be a new, permanent shift in bidding. Like how the ER used to be the crown jewel of non-pure-international flying. 7ER A used to take nearly 20 years to hold. But it is now just another 'domestic' category with a few extra perks in the bid packet (sorry if that offends anyone, but you can't deny bidding behavior has permananly changed). The ER A "wall" has indeed fallen. Permanantly. When we take delivery of new WB's as a 767-300 replacement, and if we really do grow the international side of the airline, I can see some kind of further "wall" falling. But to take any kind of credit for it, you've got to define what you mean by "wall" ahead of time.
(And to be fair, I do note that you did specifically posit a 2014 hire getting WB A by Sept 22nd 2025" here. I respectfully disagree WB A will drop to a 5000+ seniority number in that timeframe, but I do commend you for being bold and very specific there. And I'd be delighted to be proven wrong
).Note: hyperlink only works on desktop version for some reason
The Wall will Fall by Sept 2025, and IMO possibly well before that. 330A is a prestigious position, but I think most people would rather stay senior domestic As vs junior reserve 330A+NYC Crash pad shenanigans for shortcall only to fly to Paris and Amsterdam 90% of the time. Oh and double redeyes to South America
11-04-2023, 05:23 PM
#5697
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,231
to those who say the 757 was brought up to the 767 rate…first of all I call bull****. Just look at the current pay rates. The 7ER pays the same as the narrow body 321NEO….and it pays 70$ an hour less than the 765/330/359. Contractually it’s a narrowbody. Shame on ALPA for allowing this to happen.
11-04-2023, 06:31 PM
#5698
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Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 379
yeah we all get that. It doesn’t pay widebody pay rates. That’s all we care about.
to those who say the 757 was brought up to the 767 rate…first of all I call bull****. Just look at the current pay rates. The 7ER pays the same as the narrow body 321NEO….and it pays 70$ an hour less than the 765/330/359. Contractually it’s a narrowbody. Shame on ALPA for allowing this to happen.
to those who say the 757 was brought up to the 767 rate…first of all I call bull****. Just look at the current pay rates. The 7ER pays the same as the narrow body 321NEO….and it pays 70$ an hour less than the 765/330/359. Contractually it’s a narrowbody. Shame on ALPA for allowing this to happen.
11-04-2023, 06:33 PM
#5699
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Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 379
2014 Hire is the Widebody wall. 2007 hires is the Moat. With 35 NYC 330As on this AE the Moat gets breached this AE or the next.
The Wall will Fall by Sept 2025, and IMO possibly well before that. 330A is a prestigious position, but I think most people would rather stay senior domestic As vs junior reserve 330A+NYC Crash pad shenanigans for shortcall only to fly to Paris and Amsterdam 90% of the time. Oh and double redeyes to South America
The Wall will Fall by Sept 2025, and IMO possibly well before that. 330A is a prestigious position, but I think most people would rather stay senior domestic As vs junior reserve 330A+NYC Crash pad shenanigans for shortcall only to fly to Paris and Amsterdam 90% of the time. Oh and double redeyes to South America
11-04-2023, 06:48 PM
#5700
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,231
yeah I’ve seen that and know the union arguments. I disagree. For the record, I don’t think the whole ER category should be paid widebody rates….just the 767. We had separate pay rates for the 757 and 767 in the past, They are different airplanes with very different capabilities.
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