Prepare yourselves… 2023 AEs
08-19-2023, 11:45 AM
#4361
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,728
I used to enjoy Europe trips. As I’m getting older, they are harder to deal with. I’m getting senior enough that I mostly fly 1 and 2 day trips. Most importantly I’m able to stay on a constant schedule. Constant being roughly the same show time (no early mornings) everyday. I feel so much more rested, and recently was able to stop BP meds. The difference is huge. Delta needs to learn from Southwest and build trips that don’t change show time from early to late or vice versa.
but nobody is honestly interested in it at the expense of convenience
08-19-2023, 05:33 PM
#4362
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,090
"Hey, did you know it can be done this way" is welcome. "You really don't know how to" is unwelcome.
It sounds like the tone is a lot like it was as an NYC 7ER B. If that's the case, I'm all in. I was, however, astonished at the tone as an ATL 73N B. Two completely different jobs. One enjoyable. One unenjoyable.
It sounds like the tone is a lot like it was as an NYC 7ER B. If that's the case, I'm all in. I was, however, astonished at the tone as an ATL 73N B. Two completely different jobs. One enjoyable. One unenjoyable.
08-19-2023, 06:03 PM
#4363
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,806
Speak for yourself, that's exactly what I want. Commutability isn't a factor for me (though I get it is a deal for many), I just want consistency. I recently had a month of the same 1 day trip with late morning reports and mid afternoon releases...best month I've ever had wrt to sleep/consistency. Honestly, I could do that trip the rest of my career and be happy.
As another poster said, I much prefer 1 and 2 day trips that keep me on the same timeline, preferably AM flying. Another good month, I had 4 x 3 day trips that had the same sign in time, and 3 of the 4 had the same sign out time. With the last trip signing out 30 min later. Mid rotation reports and releases were similar. Great month, though I'd have preferred 1 days or 2 days. This is one to the big reasons I stay where I am, it's one of the last places you can have decent rotations wrt to consistency in times (at my seniority), no body clock swaps and no redeye. Sucks they threw us (717) under the bus on min % of 1 and 2 day trips in the bid packet.
08-19-2023, 06:21 PM
#4364
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 208
No one was thrown under the bus. Can’t remember if it was at a roadshow or during a podcast, but they specifically said that forcing 1-2 day trips on the 717 had tons of unintended consequences that made trips worse.
08-19-2023, 06:26 PM
#4365
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,806
Would love to have at least seen a sample bid packet of that. To me, 3/4/5 day trips are worse trips. As far as the bus comment, I'll agree to disagree, especially when you consider the pay banding.
Last edited by crewdawg; 08-19-2023 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Clarification
08-19-2023, 07:22 PM
#4366
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Position: 330B
Posts: 130
worse by their standards and worse my ours are two different things. Further I would contend trios that look more efficient in the bid package actually end up being less efficient when you get in to the month. When pilots sick out, fatigue out, miss connections due to delays, etc, any efficiencies they thought they had go out the window.
08-19-2023, 07:55 PM
#4367
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 219
A few things off the top of my head that happened as an ATL 73N B:
First trip off OE:
We take off, and it's pretty cold in the flight deck. I look up at the temp selectors and notice that the flight deck temp controller is at full cold. I reach up and put it to about 11 o'clock. The captain immediately reaches up, twists it full cold, and says, "I run my flight deck cold!" OK. A little odd. I get my puffy Columbia jacket out of my bag, put it on, and never touched the temperature controllers again for the rest of the trip. No big deal, really.
Different day, different captain:
We're climbing to an intermediate altitude, maybe 240. We get a clearance to continue the climb to 350. I read the clearance back. The captain says, "350," but he doesn't scroll it into the altitude selection window. I wait 5 or 10 seconds, and he turns to his iPad to start looking something up. I point to the altitude selection window and say, "did you want to put 350 here?" The captain snaps, "I'll get to it when I'm ready!" He then waits until we're 1000 before level off to put the higher altitude in the altitude selection window.
Later that same leg, we're getting slam dunked, and the captain doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. I say, "I think we're high and fast." The captain says, "we're fine." At 1500 AFE we're doing a little over 2000 FPM. I say, "sink rate." The captain initially eases the rate of descent, then he asks, "did the airplane say that, or was it you?" I say, "it was me." He mutters something to himself, pushes the nose over. Four red on the PAPI, GPWS shouting at us, he continues to a landing, touches down, and immediately goes max manual braking to make the first turnoff.
Different day, different captain:
BHM to ATL leg. Widget WX shows a wall of severe TS between BHM and ATL. I turn my iPad so that the captain can see it and ask, "what's the plan for the weather between here and there?" He says, "we'll use the radar and pick our way through." We take off, and the weather looks terrible on the radar. I say, "that looks pretty bad." The captain says nothing, reaches up and deselects the radar on his side. While I'm trying to figure out what to say, ATC puts us into holding. ATC tells us, "no one is getting into ATL right now."
I look at the flight plan, do some quick back of the napkin math, and come up with what I think is our minimum legal fuel before divert. The captain doesn't seem to be doing any of this. I say, "I've got my number." He says, "what?" I say, "what do you think is a good fuel number before we need to divert?" Captain does some math, and comes up with a number 2000 pounds below mine. I say, "I came up with a number 2000 pounds higher." He says, "we're using mine."
I explain in detail how I came up with my number, and the captain says, "we're using mine." We keep holding until we get to my number. I tell the captain that I think we need to go to BHM. He says we are waiting another 2000 pounds, and if we divert, we're going to CHS. I tell him that CHS is through the weather, and we are at the minimum fuel to fly to ATL, go missed, and still make our alternate. I think we should turn around and go to BHM.
We get cleared to another fix closer to the field. As we are approaching the fix, ATC puts us into holding again. I tell the captain that we need to go to BHM. He says, "no." I key the mic and tell ATC that we need to divert to BHM. ATC clears us through the weather for the approach. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride all the way to the field. We touch down with 4.1.
There was an AE closing the next day. I bid every ATL captain spot in pay rate order, and they gave me 73N A.
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
If I end up making the switch, I'll try to be pleasant to fly with on the 350. I'll be the short bald guy who doesn't want to land short of the runway or run out of gas.
08-20-2023, 02:52 AM
#4368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 271
That's a good thing. Maybe I was just unlucky.
A few things off the top of my head that happened as an ATL 73N B:
First trip off OE:
We take off, and it's pretty cold in the flight deck. I look up at the temp selectors and notice that the flight deck temp controller is at full cold. I reach up and put it to about 11 o'clock. The captain immediately reaches up, twists it full cold, and says, "I run my flight deck cold!" OK. A little odd. I get my puffy Columbia jacket out of my bag, put it on, and never touched the temperature controllers again for the rest of the trip. No big deal, really.
Different day, different captain:
We're climbing to an intermediate altitude, maybe 240. We get a clearance to continue the climb to 350. I read the clearance back. The captain says, "350," but he doesn't scroll it into the altitude selection window. I wait 5 or 10 seconds, and he turns to his iPad to start looking something up. I point to the altitude selection window and say, "did you want to put 350 here?" The captain snaps, "I'll get to it when I'm ready!" He then waits until we're 1000 before level off to put the higher altitude in the altitude selection window.
Later that same leg, we're getting slam dunked, and the captain doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. I say, "I think we're high and fast." The captain says, "we're fine." At 1500 AFE we're doing a little over 2000 FPM. I say, "sink rate." The captain initially eases the rate of descent, then he asks, "did the airplane say that, or was it you?" I say, "it was me." He mutters something to himself, pushes the nose over. Four red on the PAPI, GPWS shouting at us, he continues to a landing, touches down, and immediately goes max manual braking to make the first turnoff.
Different day, different captain:
BHM to ATL leg. Widget WX shows a wall of severe TS between BHM and ATL. I turn my iPad so that the captain can see it and ask, "what's the plan for the weather between here and there?" He says, "we'll use the radar and pick our way through." We take off, and the weather looks terrible on the radar. I say, "that looks pretty bad." The captain says nothing, reaches up and deselects the radar on his side. While I'm trying to figure out what to say, ATC puts us into holding. ATC tells us, "no one is getting into ATL right now."
I look at the flight plan, do some quick back of the napkin math, and come up with what I think is our minimum legal fuel before divert. The captain doesn't seem to be doing any of this. I say, "I've got my number." He says, "what?" I say, "what do you think is a good fuel number before we need to divert?" Captain does some math, and comes up with a number 2000 pounds below mine. I say, "I came up with a number 2000 pounds higher." He says, "we're using mine."
I explain in detail how I came up with my number, and the captain says, "we're using mine." We keep holding until we get to my number. I tell the captain that I think we need to go to BHM. He says we are waiting another 2000 pounds, and if we divert, we're going to CHS. I tell him that CHS is through the weather, and we are at the minimum fuel to fly to ATL, go missed, and still make our alternate. I think we should turn around and go to BHM.
We get cleared to another fix closer to the field. As we are approaching the fix, ATC puts us into holding again. I tell the captain that we need to go to BHM. He says, "no." I key the mic and tell ATC that we need to divert to BHM. ATC clears us through the weather for the approach. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride all the way to the field. We touch down with 4.1.
There was an AE closing the next day. I bid every ATL captain spot in pay rate order, and they gave me 73N A.
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
If I end up making the switch, I'll try to be pleasant to fly with on the 350. I'll be the short bald guy who doesn't want to land short of the runway or run out of gas.
A few things off the top of my head that happened as an ATL 73N B:
First trip off OE:
We take off, and it's pretty cold in the flight deck. I look up at the temp selectors and notice that the flight deck temp controller is at full cold. I reach up and put it to about 11 o'clock. The captain immediately reaches up, twists it full cold, and says, "I run my flight deck cold!" OK. A little odd. I get my puffy Columbia jacket out of my bag, put it on, and never touched the temperature controllers again for the rest of the trip. No big deal, really.
Different day, different captain:
We're climbing to an intermediate altitude, maybe 240. We get a clearance to continue the climb to 350. I read the clearance back. The captain says, "350," but he doesn't scroll it into the altitude selection window. I wait 5 or 10 seconds, and he turns to his iPad to start looking something up. I point to the altitude selection window and say, "did you want to put 350 here?" The captain snaps, "I'll get to it when I'm ready!" He then waits until we're 1000 before level off to put the higher altitude in the altitude selection window.
Later that same leg, we're getting slam dunked, and the captain doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. I say, "I think we're high and fast." The captain says, "we're fine." At 1500 AFE we're doing a little over 2000 FPM. I say, "sink rate." The captain initially eases the rate of descent, then he asks, "did the airplane say that, or was it you?" I say, "it was me." He mutters something to himself, pushes the nose over. Four red on the PAPI, GPWS shouting at us, he continues to a landing, touches down, and immediately goes max manual braking to make the first turnoff.
Different day, different captain:
BHM to ATL leg. Widget WX shows a wall of severe TS between BHM and ATL. I turn my iPad so that the captain can see it and ask, "what's the plan for the weather between here and there?" He says, "we'll use the radar and pick our way through." We take off, and the weather looks terrible on the radar. I say, "that looks pretty bad." The captain says nothing, reaches up and deselects the radar on his side. While I'm trying to figure out what to say, ATC puts us into holding. ATC tells us, "no one is getting into ATL right now."
I look at the flight plan, do some quick back of the napkin math, and come up with what I think is our minimum legal fuel before divert. The captain doesn't seem to be doing any of this. I say, "I've got my number." He says, "what?" I say, "what do you think is a good fuel number before we need to divert?" Captain does some math, and comes up with a number 2000 pounds below mine. I say, "I came up with a number 2000 pounds higher." He says, "we're using mine."
I explain in detail how I came up with my number, and the captain says, "we're using mine." We keep holding until we get to my number. I tell the captain that I think we need to go to BHM. He says we are waiting another 2000 pounds, and if we divert, we're going to CHS. I tell him that CHS is through the weather, and we are at the minimum fuel to fly to ATL, go missed, and still make our alternate. I think we should turn around and go to BHM.
We get cleared to another fix closer to the field. As we are approaching the fix, ATC puts us into holding again. I tell the captain that we need to go to BHM. He says, "no." I key the mic and tell ATC that we need to divert to BHM. ATC clears us through the weather for the approach. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride all the way to the field. We touch down with 4.1.
There was an AE closing the next day. I bid every ATL captain spot in pay rate order, and they gave me 73N A.
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
If I end up making the switch, I'll try to be pleasant to fly with on the 350. I'll be the short bald guy who doesn't want to land short of the runway or run out of gas.
08-20-2023, 04:50 AM
#4369
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,613
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
08-20-2023, 05:22 AM
#4370
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 709
That's a good thing. Maybe I was just unlucky.
A few things off the top of my head that happened as an ATL 73N B:
First trip off OE:
We take off, and it's pretty cold in the flight deck. I look up at the temp selectors and notice that the flight deck temp controller is at full cold. I reach up and put it to about 11 o'clock. The captain immediately reaches up, twists it full cold, and says, "I run my flight deck cold!" OK. A little odd. I get my puffy Columbia jacket out of my bag, put it on, and never touched the temperature controllers again for the rest of the trip. No big deal, really.
Different day, different captain:
We're climbing to an intermediate altitude, maybe 240. We get a clearance to continue the climb to 350. I read the clearance back. The captain says, "350," but he doesn't scroll it into the altitude selection window. I wait 5 or 10 seconds, and he turns to his iPad to start looking something up. I point to the altitude selection window and say, "did you want to put 350 here?" The captain snaps, "I'll get to it when I'm ready!" He then waits until we're 1000 before level off to put the higher altitude in the altitude selection window.
Later that same leg, we're getting slam dunked, and the captain doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. I say, "I think we're high and fast." The captain says, "we're fine." At 1500 AFE we're doing a little over 2000 FPM. I say, "sink rate." The captain initially eases the rate of descent, then he asks, "did the airplane say that, or was it you?" I say, "it was me." He mutters something to himself, pushes the nose over. Four red on the PAPI, GPWS shouting at us, he continues to a landing, touches down, and immediately goes max manual braking to make the first turnoff.
Different day, different captain:
BHM to ATL leg. Widget WX shows a wall of severe TS between BHM and ATL. I turn my iPad so that the captain can see it and ask, "what's the plan for the weather between here and there?" He says, "we'll use the radar and pick our way through." We take off, and the weather looks terrible on the radar. I say, "that looks pretty bad." The captain says nothing, reaches up and deselects the radar on his side. While I'm trying to figure out what to say, ATC puts us into holding. ATC tells us, "no one is getting into ATL right now."
I look at the flight plan, do some quick back of the napkin math, and come up with what I think is our minimum legal fuel before divert. The captain doesn't seem to be doing any of this. I say, "I've got my number." He says, "what?" I say, "what do you think is a good fuel number before we need to divert?" Captain does some math, and comes up with a number 2000 pounds below mine. I say, "I came up with a number 2000 pounds higher." He says, "we're using mine."
I explain in detail how I came up with my number, and the captain says, "we're using mine." We keep holding until we get to my number. I tell the captain that I think we need to go to BHM. He says we are waiting another 2000 pounds, and if we divert, we're going to CHS. I tell him that CHS is through the weather, and we are at the minimum fuel to fly to ATL, go missed, and still make our alternate. I think we should turn around and go to BHM.
We get cleared to another fix closer to the field. As we are approaching the fix, ATC puts us into holding again. I tell the captain that we need to go to BHM. He says, "no." I key the mic and tell ATC that we need to divert to BHM. ATC clears us through the weather for the approach. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride all the way to the field. We touch down with 4.1.
There was an AE closing the next day. I bid every ATL captain spot in pay rate order, and they gave me 73N A.
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
If I end up making the switch, I'll try to be pleasant to fly with on the 350. I'll be the short bald guy who doesn't want to land short of the runway or run out of gas.
A few things off the top of my head that happened as an ATL 73N B:
First trip off OE:
We take off, and it's pretty cold in the flight deck. I look up at the temp selectors and notice that the flight deck temp controller is at full cold. I reach up and put it to about 11 o'clock. The captain immediately reaches up, twists it full cold, and says, "I run my flight deck cold!" OK. A little odd. I get my puffy Columbia jacket out of my bag, put it on, and never touched the temperature controllers again for the rest of the trip. No big deal, really.
Different day, different captain:
We're climbing to an intermediate altitude, maybe 240. We get a clearance to continue the climb to 350. I read the clearance back. The captain says, "350," but he doesn't scroll it into the altitude selection window. I wait 5 or 10 seconds, and he turns to his iPad to start looking something up. I point to the altitude selection window and say, "did you want to put 350 here?" The captain snaps, "I'll get to it when I'm ready!" He then waits until we're 1000 before level off to put the higher altitude in the altitude selection window.
Later that same leg, we're getting slam dunked, and the captain doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. I say, "I think we're high and fast." The captain says, "we're fine." At 1500 AFE we're doing a little over 2000 FPM. I say, "sink rate." The captain initially eases the rate of descent, then he asks, "did the airplane say that, or was it you?" I say, "it was me." He mutters something to himself, pushes the nose over. Four red on the PAPI, GPWS shouting at us, he continues to a landing, touches down, and immediately goes max manual braking to make the first turnoff.
Different day, different captain:
BHM to ATL leg. Widget WX shows a wall of severe TS between BHM and ATL. I turn my iPad so that the captain can see it and ask, "what's the plan for the weather between here and there?" He says, "we'll use the radar and pick our way through." We take off, and the weather looks terrible on the radar. I say, "that looks pretty bad." The captain says nothing, reaches up and deselects the radar on his side. While I'm trying to figure out what to say, ATC puts us into holding. ATC tells us, "no one is getting into ATL right now."
I look at the flight plan, do some quick back of the napkin math, and come up with what I think is our minimum legal fuel before divert. The captain doesn't seem to be doing any of this. I say, "I've got my number." He says, "what?" I say, "what do you think is a good fuel number before we need to divert?" Captain does some math, and comes up with a number 2000 pounds below mine. I say, "I came up with a number 2000 pounds higher." He says, "we're using mine."
I explain in detail how I came up with my number, and the captain says, "we're using mine." We keep holding until we get to my number. I tell the captain that I think we need to go to BHM. He says we are waiting another 2000 pounds, and if we divert, we're going to CHS. I tell him that CHS is through the weather, and we are at the minimum fuel to fly to ATL, go missed, and still make our alternate. I think we should turn around and go to BHM.
We get cleared to another fix closer to the field. As we are approaching the fix, ATC puts us into holding again. I tell the captain that we need to go to BHM. He says, "no." I key the mic and tell ATC that we need to divert to BHM. ATC clears us through the weather for the approach. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride all the way to the field. We touch down with 4.1.
There was an AE closing the next day. I bid every ATL captain spot in pay rate order, and they gave me 73N A.
If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was on the NYC 7ER, then I'd make the switch in a heartbeat. If I knew the culture on the ATL 350 is like it was when I was an ATL 73N B, then I'd stay in the left seat until I could upgrade into the 330 or 350. Most responses seem to think I'm out to lunch, so maybe I'll just flip a coin.
If I end up making the switch, I'll try to be pleasant to fly with on the 350. I'll be the short bald guy who doesn't want to land short of the runway or run out of gas.
I mean, I certainly haven't liked every CA I've flown with and there are a few I wouldn't want to fly with again but those stories are crazy! On the whole the CAs I've flown with have been excellent. Professional, competent, ready & willing to take input from the FO, and quick to point out they are not perfect. I'm sorry you had to go through those situations.
I'm curious, now that you are a CA have you asked your FOs what their experiences with CAs have been like? Did your other friends that are FOs have these experiences? Hope the CA life is treating you better.
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