notEnuf

Especially with these rates. 4.5% annually over 7.25 years.
4.5/4.5/4.5/4.5/4.5/4.5/4.5 and we are celebrating... At least keep that going indefinitely past the amendable date with a COLA escalator. I would have real reason to say yes because my QOL would improve tremendously without all the gnashing of teeth every 3-7 years.

TED74

I haven’t done the math. Is this for a pilot who is on 717/737/7ER continuously until 2027? And everyone else does better by a significant margin?

Do those numbers also assume someone donates to charity the extra vacation income, training income, added DC, extra per diem, paternity leave, above-guarantee short call incentives, crew meals in lieu of self-pay McDonalds, bonus pay for 0000-0159 release, any added reroute pay and DPMP premium savings? Clearly we needn’t consider holiday pay or premium bid trips /open time since we don’t know how those will p(l)ay out.

I’m all about downplaying proposed added value during negotiations, but now that this thing is what will be voted on by some or all of us I think it behooves us to accurately value the deltas. Naturally, that’s in addition to the stuff that is likely to significantly improve my personal quality of life - AE bidding, 18 hour long call, monthly bidding behavioral changes due to holiday pay, jetway trades, fatigue mitigation protections and possibly others.

notEnuf

34% over 7.25 years. This is what the rates equate to. I love the fact that this NC resisted concessions while improving QOL. This is a great result given our track record. However, it was for COLA style rates while missing on retirement and backloading the pay by not getting full retro in the end. That part is on the MEC when they lowered guidance. I think we can do better, especially after a peek at the financials and the current pilot market.

Gspeed

Why the emphasis on pay? If AA and UAL are truly going to surpass us then the two-time 1% snap up language will fix it, no?

Check my math on the proposed 17% DC: What is 20% of today’s rates? And what is 17% of the new 18-24% rates? Oh, and what happens to the DC money when it overfunds your plan? Does it stay as retirement money?

These are all rhetorical but I’m still intrigued by what your answers will be.

Giordano Bruno

Check my math. The MBCBP will be available in Oct 2023, correct? So that's where the increased percentage points of DC we didn't get would have gone.

notEnuf

A 4 year deal would be the prime vehicle to get us to 20% in year 4. 17/18/19/20. Those not making 330K need additional funds for max contributions. I was hopeful for the MBCBP as a tax shelter but… TBD. Without knowing the polling, I don’t know if there is support for a MB but I doubt it. This would become an additional raise for those not wanting to max or already at the max contributions, which is why I suggested it. 4.5% in perpetuity locked up in an escalator would end the retro issue once and for all. A 7.25 year deal at $1.4B per year is a $10.15B dollar deal.

Gspeed

You didn’t check my math. Womp womp.

17% of a rate raised by 18% is equal to 20% of today’s rates.

notEnuf

your point? What’s your math on duration (minimum)/value?

Gone Flying

Always worked under the premise millennials were borne between 1980-1995. That makes the oldest about to turn 43 and the youngest 27.

I’ve usually heard these dates as rough guesses for each generation
Boomer 1946-1964
gen X 1965-1980
gen Y 1980-1995
gen Z 1995-2010

bugman61

We will be permitted to start a new DB plan in October without specific guidance from the treasury. However, they still have not given guidance that such a plan can have optional participation. So in order to start in October we either need an answer from them to a question we asked over a year ago, or we need to have a new vote to make the MBCBP mandatory.