Funk

One of the things that was discussed at the C66 meeting yesterday after the brouhaha portion was the AIP.

First a caveat: The MEC is still under a gag order regarding specifics and so (I think) even putting out the gullet points was hanging it out a little WRT the mediator, AND this is more information than we’ve ever had about details prior to the normal announcement, “We have a TA and here is the language.”

The retro discussion basically was that the company, rather than negotiate details of percentages, etc., just said here’s a big pile of cash, divide it as you see fit to ALPA. That explains why there isn’t DC, nor is it compounding because the company stayed out of details (that would’ve cost them incrementally more), but because of the size of the pile of money, it would’ve been very difficult to look reasonable before the mediator to turn it down after so much time essentially stalled.

Is it the right outcome? No. Was there room to possibly get more, whether via a principled look at rates, compounding, and then DC? Maybe, but that fleeting moment of opportunity is long dead because, right or wrong, the MEC voted 9-8 to lower guidance to the NC and we progressed to an AIP and active negotiations ended.

Bucking Bar

You just described, in almost textbook fashion, "Distributive Bargaining" or as the NMB says in their more politically correct voice, "Interest-Based Bargaining." It works exactly as you described.

What would have gotten us another 2-3% is actual unity and discipline. The MEC should have straw-polled issues. The loser then needed to grow a pair, suck it up and vote with the majority. 19-0 sends a message.

19-0 sends the message that when our Negotiator calls Ed and says "hey, we are close, we appreciate your movement, but we need to have a raise over 20% to get us there. You get me to >20% and we have a deal." ... we have not empowered anyone to have that conversation. Instead, we have the NC running to the MEC, the MEC members politically posturing some in their individual interest so as to have as many politically safe "no votes" as possible.

You will never get the BEST offer without authority. In our case, authority = unity.

Funk

I will disagree slightly here on one point only: We really don’t know what additional value might’ve been gained and what posture or pressure would’ve produced it. We don’t really know with certainty what the company negotiators had for room to bargain, what pressure the company felt and whether that pressure at that moment was persistent or fleeting. Is it possible that the offer was the result of building internal company pressure to lock in a deal prior to Ed going on TV to proclaim future profits of unicorns and rainbows for all investors? Maybe. Was it momentary pressure after the mediator expressed displeasure about the GMA and CNBC comments and an exasperated Ed telling giving direction to offer X amount to the (insert your preferred expletive Ed might use for pilots here), “but if they don’t take it, we’re going to go scorched earth.” Maybe. Was a combination of the two? Unknown. Just like any less than elegant landing I’ve noticed from 31B/E, it’s easy to question why it turned out that way and assure myself that if I replaced the clown doing the landing, that it would’ve turned out better, but the reality is I don’t know, and some important variables may never be known. We have an AIP and we can speculate on the variables that went into the sausage making, but it still is what it is and it’s really impossible to know if or how much better it could’ve been.

Planetrain

What would DC on retro do for any of us anyways?

It’s not like you can go back in time and put money in retirement for 2020-2022. All it would do is put “retro DC” into 2023, which already 2023 DC (+PS) is going to fully fund the 401k for the majority of pilots even before retro DC would be added. So retro DC is going to pay out as cash either way you slice it.

You just have to ask yourself if the retro is enough? It’s not enough for me, high 4-figures below my expectations. What’s tipping the scales for me is the soft money gains. (Wasn’t that our negotiating priority?). Net, the soft money far far exceeds what’s missing in retro. As an example, the earlier weeks of vacations alone pay out more than insufficient retro for most pilots. Do the math yourself - that’s hidden big money.

1 earlier extra week is 28 hours at a minimum each year, ratcheting up in value as the vacation day pays more. 757/321N capt 28x$349x16%DC= $11,336

DWC CAP10 USAF

I know you said "realistic", but just throwing it out there that the most junior new hire 757 Capt on the last AE was ATL.

Hope that guy/gal likes doing MCO turns....state bird of Florida!

Funk

Another soft money item is the per diem provision. As discussed yesterday (and a big fail on my part to ask a more specific follow up, which may or may not have gotten a specific answer), the new per diem the rates will be 90% (to avoid tax ability of hitting 100% and having any/some crew meals) of the weighted average of the top ten layover locations. My fail, and it’s possible the finer details aren’t yet available, was asking if that weighted average is by fleet or system wide. Is it month to month, or yearly? Let’s say it’s yearly (easier to do hard math once) and system wide, then as long as the 90% provision to avoid taxation doesn’t invite further scrutiny from the IRS, causing a rerig of calculations or taxes, then it’s possible that even a 717 FO could be bringing in 90% of the average of (name the most expensive international destinations in the system). The final language is unknown to us, but that’s a scenario that could net a healthy chunk of additional tax free income via soft pay.

Schwanker

No thanks. When we give someone this authority, all of a sudden they start horse trading concessions. This team did much better than any before as they avoided paying for our gains. We send in Moak, Malone or whoever to get that 20%, we’ll later find out we traded PB days, OE trip buys, scope, or monetized profit sharing to get it.

Let’s avoid the time value of concessions.

Abouttime2fish

Seems like I’m always working when the fishing weather is good, and home when it stinks! Case in point, got home yesterday. Pouring rain right now, seas are 4-6 ft as far out as the forecast goes, and the BFT are rolling on bait 3-5 miles off off the beach.

Scooter432

Back on track here.

Next AE is upcoming early Jan tentatively. What can we expect? A smaller bid? WB slots for summer '23? Or more of the same NB Bs and newhire positions basically?

Pony Express

I am curious how junior NB A slots will go, given the pay banding for WB B. Last AE didnt have a plethora of NB A slots but because of all of the backfilling it went stupid junior. If it closes before the TA language is out, will NB A bid WB B or hope that narrow body trips get addressed significantly enough to stay put? Seems like a gamble considering the pay rates are much more specifically spelled out in the AIP as opposed to a vague point about improvements in rotation construction.

Would any NB As like to chime in with their thoughts?