Prepare yourselves… 2023 AEs
04-05-2023, 11:56 AM
#1901
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Not at DAL. The current system has been in place since C2k. There was a TDY (temporary duty) system, but it was gone with C2k as well.
NWA had a completely different system that ran monthly with a 3.5 month "conversion window" (it was called something different). Bids closed on the 5th and were awarded on the 20th. They had 3.5 months to get you to your new position, so you basically knew when you were going to training.
The downside was there was a TDY system that could be assigned involuntarily, but TDY was positive space/full hotel & per diem, so it always went senior voluntarily. Pilots on TDY bid after all the permanent position holders, so nothing was lost for the pilots in those positions. Not every month had a huge number of openings, but there was enough churn that people could go base to base without much trouble. There was zero of the angsty drama that seems to surround our current system.
I'm not saying everything (or even most things) about NWA was great, but this particular facet was much better to the extent that position bidding was such a non-event that it never warranted even the slightest conversation. If you wanted to change your "card", you did it and they ran every month until you got what you wanted. They also published the list of everyone bidding a position (and the number choice it was) every month so you pretty much knew where you stood.
NWA had a completely different system that ran monthly with a 3.5 month "conversion window" (it was called something different). Bids closed on the 5th and were awarded on the 20th. They had 3.5 months to get you to your new position, so you basically knew when you were going to training.
The downside was there was a TDY system that could be assigned involuntarily, but TDY was positive space/full hotel & per diem, so it always went senior voluntarily. Pilots on TDY bid after all the permanent position holders, so nothing was lost for the pilots in those positions. Not every month had a huge number of openings, but there was enough churn that people could go base to base without much trouble. There was zero of the angsty drama that seems to surround our current system.
I'm not saying everything (or even most things) about NWA was great, but this particular facet was much better to the extent that position bidding was such a non-event that it never warranted even the slightest conversation. If you wanted to change your "card", you did it and they ran every month until you got what you wanted. They also published the list of everyone bidding a position (and the number choice it was) every month so you pretty much knew where you stood.
TDY does reduce the number of pilots in a base though, so senior seats now would likely be more senior. I'll take the current system if the alternative would require allowing TDYs
04-05-2023, 12:37 PM
#1902
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,204
Yeah this seems very unorganized. I come from a regional where you had 60 day conversions. You bid and got it awarded this month, had next month to do all your CBT's, and then trained the following month. You could even see a live list online of everyone by name,seniority #, base/seat and you could use filters to game how many people were bidding ahead of you for a specific thing. I've been here a minute and I'm still shocked at how archaic some of this stuff is.
04-05-2023, 01:28 PM
#1903
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,907
TDY does allow for plugging some staffing gaps, no question. But generally that means someone senior is volunteering to be at the bottom of the list somewhere else, so whatever category they came from sees a slight advance.
04-05-2023, 01:56 PM
#1904
Leaves Biscoff crumbs
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Position: Blue Juice Taste Tester
Posts: 1,363
The system at NWA had the DC-9, 727 (3 man), MD-80, A320, 757, DC-10 (3 man), 747-200 (3 man), 747-400, with bases in MSP, DTW, MEM, HNL, ANC and SEA. Not every base had each airplane, but everything above was times 2 because of a peculiar system where line holders and reserves in each category were a separate bid status. Somehow they managed to run it every month along with a parallel TDY system and it all seemed to work out and everything was always early, or at least on time.
TDY does allow for plugging some staffing gaps, no question. But generally that means someone senior is volunteering to be at the bottom of the list somewhere else, so whatever category they came from sees a slight advance.
TDY does allow for plugging some staffing gaps, no question. But generally that means someone senior is volunteering to be at the bottom of the list somewhere else, so whatever category they came from sees a slight advance.
04-05-2023, 06:33 PM
#1905
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 713
But, but it's the way we've always done it!
or
But, but if we get it right this time we'll save some negligible amount of money compared to a predictable bid system.
or
But, but if we get it right this time we'll save some negligible amount of money compared to a predictable bid system.
04-07-2023, 03:28 PM
#1906
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 560
Yeah this seems very unorganized. I come from a regional where you had 60 day conversions. You bid and got it awarded this month, had next month to do all your CBT's, and then trained the following month. You could even see a live list online of everyone by name,seniority #, base/seat and you could use filters to game how many people were bidding ahead of you for a specific thing. I've been here a minute and I'm still shocked at how archaic some of this stuff is.
Here’s some food for thought as well. Delta is different. If you put the live bid system up, 90% of those bids would change within the final 10 mins of bids closing. It also doesn’t matter much unless it offers TOTAL transparency. So if I am senior to you. Let’s just say for simplicity sake I am #9,000. You are 15,000. I put in a bid to be NYC 330B bidding number 10 or better in category. You have a bid in just for NYC 330B. Even though it is completely unrealistic for me to be top 10 in that category at 9,000–it would still show my bid in for NYC 330B and senior to you. Maybe causing you to change your bid or roll the dice?
This is where I have ZERO faith in our icrew tool “count of pilots senior to you with a bid for ____” it can’t provide parameters, qualifiers, etc. It counts every single bid. So in order for live bidding to be even remotely effective, you’d need to be able to see absolutely everything. There is the problem. Ask a FedEx guy how “practice bids” look compared to what the actual award looks like. Pretty mind boggling to see that metric as well, because we are all divas and things have to happen exactly as we want them to, or we take our ball and go home.
That’s why guys use that “bid what you want, want what you bid” phrase. Which is about as cringeworthy as “happy wife, happy life.”
04-07-2023, 04:22 PM
#1907
Leaves Biscoff crumbs
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Position: Blue Juice Taste Tester
Posts: 1,363
We have a seniority list of 15,000+, multiple fleets from multiple manufacturers, seat locks, seat lock carve outs (first upgrade, bypass, no base for equip—new hires), instructors, pilots who do projects, blah blah blah.
Here’s some food for thought as well. Delta is different. If you put the live bid system up, 90% of those bids would change within the final 10 mins of bids closing. It also doesn’t matter much unless it offers TOTAL transparency. So if I am senior to you. Let’s just say for simplicity sake I am #9,000. You are 15,000. I put in a bid to be NYC 330B bidding number 10 or better in category. You have a bid in just for NYC 330B. Even though it is completely unrealistic for me to be top 10 in that category at 9,000–it would still show my bid in for NYC 330B and senior to you. Maybe causing you to change your bid or roll the dice?
This is where I have ZERO faith in our icrew tool “count of pilots senior to you with a bid for ____” it can’t provide parameters, qualifiers, etc. It counts every single bid. So in order for live bidding to be even remotely effective, you’d need to be able to see absolutely everything. There is the problem. Ask a FedEx guy how “practice bids” look compared to what the actual award looks like. Pretty mind boggling to see that metric as well, because we are all divas and things have to happen exactly as we want them to, or we take our ball and go home.
That’s why guys use that “bid what you want, want what you bid” phrase. Which is about as cringeworthy as “happy wife, happy life.”
Here’s some food for thought as well. Delta is different. If you put the live bid system up, 90% of those bids would change within the final 10 mins of bids closing. It also doesn’t matter much unless it offers TOTAL transparency. So if I am senior to you. Let’s just say for simplicity sake I am #9,000. You are 15,000. I put in a bid to be NYC 330B bidding number 10 or better in category. You have a bid in just for NYC 330B. Even though it is completely unrealistic for me to be top 10 in that category at 9,000–it would still show my bid in for NYC 330B and senior to you. Maybe causing you to change your bid or roll the dice?
This is where I have ZERO faith in our icrew tool “count of pilots senior to you with a bid for ____” it can’t provide parameters, qualifiers, etc. It counts every single bid. So in order for live bidding to be even remotely effective, you’d need to be able to see absolutely everything. There is the problem. Ask a FedEx guy how “practice bids” look compared to what the actual award looks like. Pretty mind boggling to see that metric as well, because we are all divas and things have to happen exactly as we want them to, or we take our ball and go home.
That’s why guys use that “bid what you want, want what you bid” phrase. Which is about as cringeworthy as “happy wife, happy life.”
04-07-2023, 04:27 PM
#1908
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 560
04-07-2023, 06:26 PM
#1910
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: NYC 7ERA
Posts: 2,063
I'm gonna go with no on the happy wife happy life.
The amount of people I see doing things they hate and being totally miserable to "please" their spouse is saddening.
My wife is not 100% happy 100% of the time. And if she was happy 100% of the time, with what I could theoretically control, I'd be totally friggin miserable. I call her on her bull**** and she does the same. We both went through relationship 1.0 where there was NO making that person happy, ever. Not a way to live.
I'm sure she'd be happier if I was able to debate the finer points of whatever stupid medical drama she is watching with her.
I'd possibly be happier if she knew how to port cylinders on motocross bikes.
Yet she accepts that I will likely go in the garage, revalve some dirtbike shocks/forks before ever watching Grays ER, and send the cylinders on my 2-stroke bikes out to be ported by Tom Morgan Racing or Pro Circuit.
The guys I know who go "happy wife, happy life" as they totally give up on anything in life but ATTEMPTING (and not succeding) in pleasing someone who will never be happy, is sad.
I let my wife make "fashion/color/style" choices. I have no style. If I did it would be wearing mullet and driving a jacked up 79 Bronco with the top off and two dirtbikes in the back. She leaves vehicles/engineering/contractors etc to me.
When I bought my first new truck in over 20 years, I picked the model (F-450) drivetrain (6.7 HO Diesel, 10 speed auto, 4.30 gears), options (carpet delete, cloth seats, bunch of other random stuff like trailer TPMS, aux coolers, etc). She was like "Dark Blue or Black". Dark blue truck it is.
Remodeling kitchen: Here is what fits, pick from the following layouts. Then pick the cabinets, colors, tile, counter, etc, I just make it all get done.
Clothing: She buys me metal band, and motocross shirts. And jeans. That's it. I don't mock her shoe picks (she's a Vans fan) but I do call bs on the amount of them.
The amount of people I see doing things they hate and being totally miserable to "please" their spouse is saddening.
My wife is not 100% happy 100% of the time. And if she was happy 100% of the time, with what I could theoretically control, I'd be totally friggin miserable. I call her on her bull**** and she does the same. We both went through relationship 1.0 where there was NO making that person happy, ever. Not a way to live.
I'm sure she'd be happier if I was able to debate the finer points of whatever stupid medical drama she is watching with her.
I'd possibly be happier if she knew how to port cylinders on motocross bikes.
Yet she accepts that I will likely go in the garage, revalve some dirtbike shocks/forks before ever watching Grays ER, and send the cylinders on my 2-stroke bikes out to be ported by Tom Morgan Racing or Pro Circuit.
The guys I know who go "happy wife, happy life" as they totally give up on anything in life but ATTEMPTING (and not succeding) in pleasing someone who will never be happy, is sad.
I let my wife make "fashion/color/style" choices. I have no style. If I did it would be wearing mullet and driving a jacked up 79 Bronco with the top off and two dirtbikes in the back. She leaves vehicles/engineering/contractors etc to me.
When I bought my first new truck in over 20 years, I picked the model (F-450) drivetrain (6.7 HO Diesel, 10 speed auto, 4.30 gears), options (carpet delete, cloth seats, bunch of other random stuff like trailer TPMS, aux coolers, etc). She was like "Dark Blue or Black". Dark blue truck it is.
Remodeling kitchen: Here is what fits, pick from the following layouts. Then pick the cabinets, colors, tile, counter, etc, I just make it all get done.
Clothing: She buys me metal band, and motocross shirts. And jeans. That's it. I don't mock her shoe picks (she's a Vans fan) but I do call bs on the amount of them.
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